Trump Protests across the Country
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« on: November 16, 2016, 11:49:35 pm »

It seems college campuses are the newest places pledging to be sanctuaries.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/16/politics/sanctuary-campus-protests/
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2016, 04:02:40 pm »

As a MEXICAN who lives in MEXICO I must say...

This is revolting.

And I'm talking about the students.

Honestly, if some had been brought to USA as children, by now they should be able to become legal citizens.  Why them or their parents never bothered to legalize their status is beyond me. Can someone actually explain how legalization status works?

Here in Mexico we are having a backlash against Trump in the media, newspapers publishing stories of immigrants whose 'American Dreams' were shattered. I only see sloth and self-entitlement.

Also, most of USA seemed to have voted for Trump so they are right to backlash against the students' behavior, after all, the funding comes from taxpayers.

Students need to realize that having access to higher education doesn't make them special, but makes them more indebted to their country and society. Instead of protesting they should be thinking in solutions agreeable to both ends.
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2016, 07:36:39 pm »

Students need to realize that having access to higher education doesn't make them special, but makes them more indebted to their country and society. Instead of protesting they should be thinking in solutions agreeable to both ends.

+1 for this

Students have to understand:

<<
I got here because I'm privileged.
I burned through my savings to move myself across the countries.
What if I had a parent, partner or child that depended on me?
What if I couldn't move across the country or afford to take such a risk with finances?
I got here because I had a community.
They supported me, encouraged me, gave me their time and most importantly made me feel safe.
We must to do better.
WE NEED ALL THE IDEAS FROM ALL THE PEOPLE.
>>

What's happening in the student community is essentially a self-referential haughtiness:
"I'm educated so I know what's best for you. Listen, shut up and do it."

They need to listen to the other communities.
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2016, 07:42:22 pm »

one of the many symptoms of the American school system quality  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2016, 08:30:44 pm »

Two things. First, it is their right to protest about anything, second, what is is about the 'Sanctuary status'? I mean if you're a student you can have a student visa and stay to study. If you are illegal then you are paying for the education yourself because you don't get financial aid if you aren't a citizen.

I think the problem si that they want to protest Trump's policies if this is the case then they need to change the way that they are protesting.
Next time get out and vote and make sure you get others to vote also. Think about this, Who voted for him and who voted for
 Hillary or another?
The majority of 'voters' voted for him so he is the president. Hopefully only one term. It reminds me of the  last elected president and the people's attitude towards him.
We all need to get off our collective ass and change the government in a positive way not some extreme knee-jerk way.
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 08:53:05 pm »

Actually a majority of US voters, about 1.6 Million more, voted for Hillary Clinton than for Donald Trump.  The popular vote does not determine the president in the US.  The electoral college does.

It's because of the electoral college and the fact that Trump won a narrow majority in several key states, that Trump is president elect.  In theory, some of the electors could vote for someone besides the majority winner in their state when they vote for president on December 19. 

But so called "faithless electors", those who vote differently than their state's winner, have never changed the results of a presidential election in US history.
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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2016, 08:54:57 pm »

Actually, Trump LOST the popular vote by over a million, so just getting out and voting clearly isn't the answer. I support all of those protesters, even though I think it's useless. What this country needs is a bottom-up revolution. Trump is one more symptom of the disease of stupidity that is killing any progress our nation might have made.
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2016, 10:58:39 pm »

Two things. First, it is their right to protest about anything, second, what is is about the 'Sanctuary status'? I mean if you're a student you can have a student visa and stay to study. If you are illegal then you are paying for the education yourself because you don't get financial aid if you aren't a citizen.

You said it: if you're a student you can have a student visa and stay to study.
It's already by `de jure` and nobody wants to revoke that.
What they're asking is pointless if it's limited to this interpretation.

What they hope to do is to turn colleges and universities into day cares for illegal immigrants.
That's concerning because every educational institute should teach a student to respect the law, not to break it.

It's your right to protest against a policy you do not agree to,
it's not right to ask institutions to turn into an illegal black market of protection.

Yes an illegal would be paying entirely the fee, but financial support is partially given directly (everyone benefits).
It would be an aggravating if taxpayer funded colleges and universities will become a beacon of lawlessness.

This is concerning, not in the protest per se, but for the background:

you do not understand how to get what you want
because your education did not teach you how to use your skills in the most effective way
(I agree with you on this: let's vote, millennials might have changed everything),
and because nobody understand anymore what should be legally doable or not.

Remarking again: one of the many symptoms of the American school system quality  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 11:13:16 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 12:33:38 am »

As a MEXICAN who lives in MEXICO I must say...

This is revolting.

And I'm talking about the students.

Honestly, if some had been brought to USA as children, by now they should be able to become legal citizens.  Why them or their parents never bothered to legalize their status is beyond me. Can someone actually explain how legalization status works?

Here in Mexico we are having a backlash against Trump in the media, newspapers publishing stories of immigrants whose 'American Dreams' were shattered. I only see sloth and self-entitlement.

Also, most of USA seemed to have voted for Trump so they are right to backlash against the students' behavior, after all, the funding comes from taxpayers.

Students need to realize that having access to higher education doesn't make them special, but makes them more indebted to their country and society. Instead of protesting they should be thinking in solutions agreeable to both ends.

That's a good question you asked, and you offered some excellent solutions.  A lot of the protesters against President Donald Trump are not Mexican, or from any Central or South American country at all.  They are rich white high school and university students who the majority of them did not even vote in the election, and are just protesting to get out of class or have an excuse to act wild.

I have friends who are Mexican but they are citizens of both the United States and Mexico, and have been here for decades they are educated with a university degree or career.  Some were not pleased with Donald Trump winning the Presidential election but they're not protesting, or claiming that he's "not my President", etc. or pretending that the popular vote in our elections count since we have an electoral college set up so someone who actually is a tyrant or dictator, or who wants a political dynasty like the Clinton and Bush families want, and that the Kennedy family basically has does not come into power, and so states where there's a large population on the East and West coast, or in the South do not control who becomes elected President.
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2017, 05:01:47 am »

As a MEXICAN who lives in MEXICO I must say...

This is revolting.

And I'm talking about the students.

Honestly, if some had been brought to USA as children, by now they should be able to become legal citizens.  Why them or their parents never bothered to legalize their status is beyond me. Can someone actually explain how legalization status works?

Here in Mexico we are having a backlash against Trump in the media, newspapers publishing stories of immigrants whose 'American Dreams' were shattered. I only see sloth and self-entitlement.

Also, most of USA seemed to have voted for Trump so they are right to backlash against the students' behavior, after all, the funding comes from taxpayers.

Students need to realize that having access to higher education doesn't make them special, but makes them more indebted to their country and society. Instead of protesting they should be thinking in solutions agreeable to both ends.

Firstly, most people did not vote for Trump, he lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes.

Secondly, I suppose you could look at what it takes to become a citizen and compare that to the typical economic status of a Mexican.

Applications take money and risk. If you're denied, you lose the money and you're deported if you're in the country. You don't get a refund.

For example, under NAFTA you can apply for a work visa that allows you to work for a specific company (sponsor) for about $420 plus attorney fees. This is the TN Visa. This lasts 3 years. You must reapply every 3 years and pay the new fee. You must also be in an industry or field that needs workers each time. You don't get in because you can afford it, you get in by meeting multiple criteria. This takes 2-3 months. Expedited processing (if you're in danger of being deported) adds about $1000. Your sponsor/employer must also re-up the agreement. If you lose the job for any reason and cannot find a new sponsor (I think the window is a few days at most) you must leave the US. You do not build time towards citizenship. So you could, in theory, do this every 3 years until Armageddon.

However, you're never a citizen and cannot apply for it since this visa doesn't count for time. This means you will pay taxes to the US Government but you cannot:
- Get Medicare
- Social Security benefits
- Unemployment benefits

So despite what you may have heard, these programs like healthcare are not available to all legal immigrants but you do pay into these accounts as if you were a citizen. Illegal immigrants, of course, don't have access to these either but they avoid the tax penalty.

What about being a citizen? Well, more complicated, especially if you have no family or spousal reason to immigrate.

This becomes an H1B visa. This visa has several significant hurdles.

- It requires corporate sponsorship. You cannot pay this yourself, it must be paid by the employer, it's about $8,000 to 10,000 for a company that employs more than 50 people, the cost doubled during Obama's tenure as President.
- You must be a skilled worker that cannot be found in the US and employed
- The employer must file a petition for your entrance and prove you're unique.
- There are limited numbers each year of these available.
- It can later be revoked. You have a few days to leave the country.
- You lose your job for any reason, you're also out.

I'm thinking (may have changed) you have to have 3 years for attaining residency and 5 to apply for citizenship. You have restrictions on travel and more. If you apply to a U.S. consulate for a new entry visa stamp, you run the risk that your application will be denied. If you're here on a TN visa and return to your home country to visit, you must reapply to enter and can be denied.

So, it's complicated.

Imagine being here legally and needing to go home to see your dying mother, well good luck. You may be denied re-entry even after going through the process again.

If you have a citizen relative, they can apply for your admission, but this can take, more or less, a decade.

If you're here on a student visa, you're not allowed to work.

So yeah, if you want to be a citizen legally, the burdens are significant based on limits, need, and cost. Curiously, as an American with immigrant friends, I thought this was a US thing. But I did look at moving to the UK for a job and it's the same thing. The rules are very similar. In the end, after the cost of moving myself to the UK and the hurdles involved, it was not worth it.

I thought it was so ironic when I told American friends and family the hoops I had to jump through to get into the UK, they were appalled! Why is it so hard?! (See also: Brexit) It was stupid, I had a job offer! But meanwhile in the US, with similar rules it's apparently not hard enough. So perspective matters....
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2017, 06:08:28 am »


Applications take money and risk. If you're denied, you lose the money and you're deported if you're in the country. You don't get a refund.

For example....

Thanks for the thoroughly explanation! :3

Well, it sure looks like a big hassle, but is worth it in my opinion.  In USA you can do more with 10 dollars than here with 10 pesos, healthcare is relatively better...  And yes, there are people willing to take the risk and walk that hazardous path.

Giving sanctuary to illegals is like a slap in the face to those who make the effort to migrate legally.
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2017, 07:35:43 am »

I live in the UK because GWB gave amnesty and priority to illegals in the green card queue.   My (now) husband's green card application was pushed back and wouldn't be finished before his work visa expired, so he had to leave. 
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2017, 04:49:25 am »

Thanks for the thoroughly explanation! :3

Well, it sure looks like a big hassle, but is worth it in my opinion.  In USA you can do more with 10 dollars than here with 10 pesos, healthcare is relatively better...  And yes, there are people willing to take the risk and walk that hazardous path.

Giving sanctuary to illegals is like a slap in the face to those who make the effort to migrate legally.

I can agree that amnesty without reform is pretty shit. I have many friends here legally who are now afraid of their visas not being renewed under the new administration. If Trump pulls out of the NAFTA Treaty then that's very much what might happen. So the ones that are punished are the ones that are here legally.

I live in the UK because GWB gave amnesty and priority to illegals in the green card queue.   My (now) husband's green card application was pushed back and wouldn't be finished before his work visa expired, so he had to leave. 

Prime example.

I can understand wanting to help people that cannot afford it or necessarily qualify (chances are if you want a better life, you're not already  an in-demand brain surgeon, so what do you do? You sneak across the border.) But failing to reform the immigration system, screwing pretty much everyone legal and not is beyond the pale. And without reform, you basically encourage people to hide.

People coming in the front gate might get turned away just as your husband was.

People sneaking in the back might actually make it, at least for awhile.

Seems...stupid, no? But it helps explain the "why" of illegal immigration. This is one of those complicated black holes most people don't understand but have strong opinions about anyway. The beginning of my knowledge began when I asked a friend that's here legally, "Why do people sneak across the border?" And then my own experience on what it would take to immigrate to the UK, and well, I get it. It's a shit system where no one really wins.
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2017, 06:25:57 am »

@raphjd

Your better chance, if either you or your husband's industries are on the needed skills list, or you're management, is to find a UK company with US offices. There is an inter-office visa that allows the company to transfer you to the US without running a lottery.

This is the L1 visa for the employee and the L2 for the spouse. You cannot do this for the express purpose of becoming a citizen or permanent immigration (meaning you can't make that statement of fact, it's just for the job man!)

Caveat: You do not build time for citizenship. You can apply for a green card eventually.
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