I Was Willing to Give Trump a Chance Until Now...
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« on: January 14, 2017, 09:58:42 pm »

While I didn't agree with Rep. John Lewis when he called Donald Trump's win illegitimate, I understood why he came to that conclusion. None of the Russian ties to the Trump candidacy have been proven; however, they have NOT been disproved either. The only way to end any and all speculation is for Trump to release his tax returns and then divest himself from his companies; which he has flip-flopped on for the past year and a half. Rep. John Lewis is one of the people who is not convinced and he has a right to believe what he believes.

Donald Trump just attacked a living Civil Rights icon, one who marched with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to gain access to the ballot box for African-Americans in this country. The right to vote had been given to black men long ago; however, racist white people intimidated black people particularly in the South and many black people were even murdered by the KKK to prevent them from voting. John Lewis himself was nearly killed in Alabama while peacefully protesting by white police officers and white attack mobs. For Donald Trump to attack someone so important to our country's history and to black culture is truly disgusting and harmful. Also, what he said in the tweet was a lie. Rep. Lewis' district is not falling apart. It is a majority black district and over 80% of the adults in that district have high school diplomas, and another 46% have college degrees. The poverty rate in that district is not as high as many other majority black districts in the country, which by the way is a problem because of inadequate funding to such districts.

Trump will be sworn in on January 20th and he has until then to apologize. No, Rep. Lewis does not have to apologize to Donald Trump because Donald Trump can easily take the argument from Rep. Lewis by RELEASING HIS TAX RETURNS. If Trump does not apologize to John Lewis then he will not be my president and like John Lewis, I will see Trump as illegitimate. Donald Trump questioned the citizenship of our country's first and only black president and NEVER apologized for it. The "Hillary Clinton came up with it first" excuse is irrational now given that Hillary Clinton is not currently our President-elect. Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with anything now, so using her as an excuse means you automatically lose any argument you begin or try to finish at this point. Donald Trump needs to apologize NOW or his approval rating will be lower than its current 39% going into becoming our 45th President. I can promise you that.
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 10:24:04 pm »

I am sorry, but your whole premise is absurd. Somehow you find it acceptable to question the legitimacy of the presidential election (based on zero evidence-- and then state that it hasn't been disproved-- which is impossible), which in effect questions the legitimacy of every elected official in this country, which could bring about anarchy and chaos, BUT you take issue with the man who has been attacked responding to said attack with a factual statement, instead of hyperbolic political-speak?

No, I hate to say that you were lying when you said you were willing to give Trump a chance, but you were at the very least disingenuous.
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 06:58:27 am »

I am sorry, but your whole premise is absurd. Somehow you find it acceptable to question the legitimacy of the presidential election (based on zero evidence-- and then state that it hasn't been disproved-- which is impossible), which in effect questions the legitimacy of every elected official in this country, which could bring about anarchy and chaos, BUT you take issue with the man who has been attacked responding to said attack with a factual statement, instead of hyperbolic political-speak?

No, I hate to say that you were lying when you said you were willing to give Trump a chance, but you were at the very least disingenuous.

Nope, I said it on here in a forum post about how President Obama will be viewed after leaving the White House that I was giving Trump a chance. That was a couple of weeks ago and I said I was giving him a chance because I was able to get married and I do not believe Trump and/or Pence will set out to challenge the SCOTUS ruling on same-sex marriage. My stance has now shifted due to his current utter disrespect to John Lewis. John Lewis nearly died trying to get black people the right to vote and I will not support Donald Trump at all if he does not either apologize for what he said or release his full tax returns to prove what John Lewis has said is wrong. He can keep his tax returns secret all he wants but he cannot disrespect Civil Rights leaders for questioning the legitimacy of his win, they have a right to question it due to Trump not releasing his tax returns or divesting himself from his businesses. You cannot agree with the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. while disrespecting someone who was so close to him and damn near lost his life to bring Dr. King's vision to fruition. We're not gonna go down that road in this country and if we do then Trump better prepare himself for another record-low approval rating.
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 10:47:23 am »

If you want to whine about the KKK intimidating black voters, do you also whine about the New Black Panthers intimidating white voters in Phili in 2008?   GWB arrested and charged them and Obama/Holder dropped all charges.    I'm betting race had a part in why the charges were dropped.

Also, NO ONE IS A SAINT, THAT'S BEYOND REPROACH.   
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 03:51:45 pm »

Trump has basically made up his media image on bad publicity.  He thrives in the kind of threats you mention -remember the old adage: 'There's no such thing as bad publicity'-

I read an interesting column in on of my country's newspapers, where it reminded us that Trump's tactics consist of being rude and disrespectful in order to elicit gut responses from his opponents and detractors.  Is basically the old trick of making your opponent angry.

Wait, wait, wait.... You're that dude from other threads that has explicitly stated that due to all the suffering blacks have experienced from whites, they are free to attack them -because in your mind, it is not racism...

As part of the white minority in a country full of latinos (which happen that also despise black people, by the way) I must say I find your logic full of hatred and resentment.  Only thing you'll get is more hate and I must add, rightfully so.

I wonder...how did Lewis reacted to Trump? Because honestly, that's the only opinion that matters.  Not the opinion of people who kidnap a mentally disabled youth, torture and humiliate him and then stream it into social media, not the opinion of entitled assholes who think they have the right to retaliate in any violent way just because they felt opression at one point and definitely, not yours.

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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 05:58:29 pm »

John Lewis said Trump is an "illegitimate President", but he's too saintly in some people's minds that he can not get called out for his comments.
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2017, 08:34:55 pm »

Yeah that's right, deflect from what this topic is about. Like I've said, I'm willing to give Donald Trump a chance if he apologizes or releases his tax returns to disprove what John Lewis has said. Donald Trump questioned the legitimacy of Barack Obama for 5 years and NEVER ONCE APOLOGIZED. Even after that, I and many others were willing to say it's fine, he doesn't have to apologize for that opinion because he was a private citizen with no real power. HE IS CURRENTLY THE PRESIDENT-ELECT to be sworn in on January 20th. He will not disrespect someone who nearly died trying to gain access to the ballot for black people. You cannot twist that in any way and if you do then you're the sick ones with the problem. Someone who attacks Civil Rights leaders will not have my respect and I will never call him president if he does not either apologize or release his tax returns and be more transparent to prove he does not have ties to Russia. This is MLK Day weekend, MLK Day is tomorrow. I can't believe the President-elect would do something like this at a time like this. It is truly disgusting. You will not tarnish the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. while in the same breath trying to use Dr. King's words to condemn black people. Disgusting.
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 09:01:44 pm »

Let me also say again that I do not agree with what John Lewis said. I believe Donald Trump was elected fairly and I do not believe Russia hacked into actual voting databases and literally changed votes. My problem is with Trump's disrespect of someone who nearly died trying to bring Dr. King's vision to fruition. John Lewis is no saint but like I have said many times already, there's a reason why he said what he said and only Donald Trump can either prove him wrong or apologize to him and let it go. If he does then I will let this go and I truly will support Trump once he becomes president because I still believe he will be a decent president for LGBT rights. You can believe what you want about me but I am not you and you are not me. I've said on here that I believe racists are a small minority in this country. I've said on here that I believe black people can very well be prejudiced. It is you guys who are twisting my words and trying to change the point of these topics. My point in this thread is very, very simple. I will not stand for someone, president or whoever, disrespecting a man who marched with Dr. King and nearly died trying to bring change to this country and how it treated black people at that time. I will not stand for that. Donald Trump has a choice to make and if he chooses to keep this behavior up then he simply will not be my president and there will be millions of others who will feel that way. He is at a 37% approval rate right now. Do you honestly think he has the political capital for this?
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 01:46:35 am »

Politifact NC
Trump was endorsed by the KKK’s official newspaper. And after his victory became official Wednesday morning, former KKK Imperial Wizard David Duke tweeted: "This is one of the most exciting nights of my life. Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!"   (Wednesday, November 9th, 2016 in a post-election Tweet)   

"the KKK did hold a widely publicized "victory" parade in North Carolina, celebrating Donald Trump's presidential win."

Also a number of racial crimes where the perpretrators claimed the Trump victory as giving them the right to now express there opnions and ideals with action.  I am actually scared.  I am a black man and am now rethinking the idea that I shouldn't have a gun.  With some of the things that have happened in my life (at the age of 11, having a .45 revolver held to my head by a white man returning from an unsuccessful hunting trip in the parking lot of a rural convenience store, asking if I knew where to find some "nigger" pussy.) I have few expectations of uncoerced brotherhood.
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 03:22:26 am »

Let me also say again that I do not agree with what John Lewis said. I believe Donald Trump was elected fairly and I do not believe Russia hacked into actual voting databases and literally changed votes. My problem is with Trump's disrespect of someone who nearly died trying to bring Dr. King's vision to fruition. John Lewis is no saint but like I have said many times already, there's a reason why he said what he said and only Donald Trump can either prove him wrong or apologize to him and let it go. If he does then I will let this go and I truly will support Trump once he becomes president because I still believe he will be a decent president for LGBT rights. You can believe what you want about me but I am not you and you are not me. I've said on here that I believe racists are a small minority in this country. I've said on here that I believe black people can very well be prejudiced. It is you guys who are twisting my words and trying to change the point of these topics. My point in this thread is very, very simple. I will not stand for someone, president or whoever, disrespecting a man who marched with Dr. King and nearly died trying to bring change to this country and how it treated black people at that time. I will not stand for that. Donald Trump has a choice to make and if he chooses to keep this behavior up then he simply will not be my president and there will be millions of others who will feel that way. He is at a 37% approval rate right now. Do you honestly think he has the political capital for this?

As I said first in my post, Trump is well-known for making incendiary comments.  Expect him to insult anything, anyone at any moment.  Is practically his signature move.  Trump is using scandal to keep himself on top of people's thoughts, and he knows where to land the punches.

He might not be your president, but the effect his actions take will affect you, either negative or even positively.  So deal with it.  You can grab a piece of cardboard, write 'Not my President' and go express your disapproval if that gives you peace of mind.  But you will be falling into his game, as many left wing accolades have done.

Politifact NC
Trump was endorsed by the KKK’s official newspaper. And after his victory became official Wednesday morning, former KKK Imperial Wizard David Duke tweeted: "This is one of the most exciting nights of my life. Make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!"   (Wednesday, November 9th, 2016 in a post-election Tweet)   

"the KKK did hold a widely publicized "victory" parade in North Carolina, celebrating Donald Trump's presidential win."

Also a number of racial crimes where the perpretrators claimed the Trump victory as giving them the right to now express there opnions and ideals with action.  I am actually scared.  I am a black man and am now rethinking the idea that I shouldn't have a gun.  With some of the things that have happened in my life (at the age of 11, having a .45 revolver held to my head by a white man returning from an unsuccessful hunting trip in the parking lot of a rural convenience store, asking if I knew where to find some "nigger" pussy.) I have few expectations of uncoerced brotherhood.

Seriously Grover...don't believe what a group of crazy people says on the Internet.  I'm pretty sure the KKK played a very minimal role (if they even did something)  Trump got support of minorities in Florida so there goes the 'White Power', even Latino support. (Indeed, he mostly bashed Mexicans, but remember that within the latino community, are several mother nations that don't congeniate well and of course, never felt alluded by Trump insulting the mexicans)

And you should get a gun,at least to protect your house, because Americans are crazy.  Just learn how to properly and safely handle it -specially if you have little kids in your home.
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2017, 10:13:01 am »

A Congressman can say what he wants because he's black, but the President can't because he's white.   

Nah, blacks aren't entitled.
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2017, 07:32:45 pm »

A Congressman can say what he wants because he's black, but the President can't because he's white.   

Nah, blacks aren't entitled.

NO ONE SAID DONALD TRUMP COULDN'T SAY ANYTHING. And John Lewis isn't just some "congressman," and the fact that you see it that way is a serious problem. When you say that, you are disrespecting the deaths and near-deaths of the people who peacefully protested to bring change to this country. Do you honor what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. did for this country or do you consider him a communist like some conservatives do? We're not going to go backwards on Civil Rights in this country so I don't know what your point is. Donald Trump can say whatever the hell he wants, which he has been doing, and how well has that worked out for him? "He won," right? He sure did, but at what cost? His own voters are saying they regret voting for him due to his reckless behavior on Twitter and the people he picked for his cabinet, now more are backing away because of this situation. He has a record low approval rating for a President-elect, his transition has the lowest rating in history and instead of trying to pull the country together he is attacking a Civil Rights leader. I hope he has some big surprise for the inauguration because that will be his only chance to unify us. He will get no other chance.

There is no way to sugar coat this. I don't care if this is his "method," this is a dangerous path to set us on and it could have very real and very terrible results. The last time we had a president go completely against the will of this country there were bad riots and people died. A white man motivated by this country's historic hatred of black people murdered Dr. King and there were riots. This is not a path that we should be going down right now. And for it to take place after we've had a black president is just so telling. The last thing we need is for nearly 60% (black, white, Latino of all races, Asian, etc.) of the country to be anti-Trump because that means we'd be anti-President and that's not good. We should be supportive of the president. How can we be supportive of him when he attacks someone who nearly lost his life trying to secure the right to vote for black people? This is beyond politics at this point and if Donald Trump does not change to become the upstanding, respectful and honorable man it takes to be a president, HE IS DONE. Simple as that.
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2017, 09:18:25 pm »


"He won," right? He sure did, but at what cost? His own voters are saying they regret voting for him due to his reckless behavior on Twitter and the people he picked for his cabinet, now more are backing away because of this situation. He has a record low approval rating for a President-elect, his transition has the lowest rating in history and instead of trying to pull the country together he is attacking a Civil Rights leader.

How can we be supportive of him when he attacks someone who nearly lost his life trying to secure the right to vote for black people?

What voters are saying they regret voting for him? Also, who did the approval polling? Probably the same people that gave him a less than 1% chance of winning the election.

As for the next statement, it shows how illogical you are. Just because someone did something good 50 years ago does not mean everything they have done since then is also good. I also think it is disingenuous to say that Trump attacked the Congressman. He countered a vile attack (based on lies and misinformation) on him by stating verifiable facts in a suggestion to the actual attacker.
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 12:01:18 am »


"He won," right? He sure did, but at what cost? His own voters are saying they regret voting for him due to his reckless behavior on Twitter and the people he picked for his cabinet, now more are backing away because of this situation. He has a record low approval rating for a President-elect, his transition has the lowest rating in history and instead of trying to pull the country together he is attacking a Civil Rights leader.

How can we be supportive of him when he attacks someone who nearly lost his life trying to secure the right to vote for black people?

What voters are saying they regret voting for him? Also, who did the approval polling? Probably the same people that gave him a less than 1% chance of winning the election.

As for the next statement, it shows how illogical you are. Just because someone did something good 50 years ago does not mean everything they have done since then is also good. I also think it is disingenuous to say that Trump attacked the Congressman. He countered a vile attack (based on lies and misinformation) on him by stating verifiable facts in a suggestion to the actual attacker.

You should really make friends with Google search, because it can help with a lot of your inquiries (https://www.google.com/#q=trump+approval+rating). Multiple credible polls from places like Gallup and even Fox News have him at either 39% or 37% approval and his transition at a dismal 44%, which is historically low. I'm illogical for getting upset at Donald Trump saying a Civil Rights leader who got his head cracked open by racist white people while trying to secure the right to vote for disenfranchised blacks is "all talk and no action" because of an opinion held by that Civil Rights leader? He's "all talk and no action" after nearly dying for something important and meaningful in this country? By saying that, Donald Trump has made an attempt to discredit the entire Civil Rights accomplishments. You, along with Trump and others, are disgusting for trying to minimize the heroic steps people like Dr. King and John Lewis took to bring about change.

So once again, Donald Trump can shut this whole thing down by releasing his tax returns (which other presidents have done) to prove he has no ties to Russia and that John Lewis nor anyone else can question his legitimacy to be our new commander-in-chief. If he continues to keep his tax returns hidden then he owes John Lewis an apology. This situation is going to go from bad to worse and it will be one of the things that defines the Trump presidency, I can guarantee you that.
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 11:49:19 am »

Only one person here is constantly bringing up race and turning everything into a racist conspiracy theory and it's not the white people.   That's quite telling. 
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 06:28:47 pm »



You should really make friends with Google search, because it can help with a lot of your inquiries... Multiple credible polls from places like Gallup and even Fox News...
 I'm illogical for getting upset at Donald Trump saying a Civil Rights leader who got his head cracked open by racist white people while trying to secure the right to vote for disenfranchised blacks is "all talk and no action" because of an opinion held by that Civil Rights leader? He's "all talk and no action" after nearly dying for something important and meaningful in this country? By saying that, Donald Trump has made an attempt to discredit the entire Civil Rights accomplishments. You, along with Trump and others, are disgusting for trying to minimize the heroic steps people like Dr. King and John Lewis took to bring about change.

So once again, Donald Trump can shut this whole thing down by releasing his tax returns (which other presidents have done) to prove he has no ties to Russia and that John Lewis nor anyone else can question his legitimacy to be our new commander-in-chief. If he continues to keep his tax returns hidden then he owes John Lewis an apology. This situation is going to go from bad to worse and it will be one of the things that defines the Trump presidency, I can guarantee you that.

A couple of things, but it is obvious that facts and logic don't play into your thinking:
1) Gallup did zero presidential polling in 2016, but anyone who thinks the polls were correct in 2016 must be standing on a very thin ledge to contort themselves into such a position as to see the rainbows and unicorns they must also see.
2) Why do you keep trying to obfuscate Trump's words to mean something entirely different than what they actually meant. He said nothing about Lewis' work 50 years ago as a civil rights protester-- he was CLEARLY referencing his current tenure in Congress, where Lewis has been nothing but a partisan hack, and who represents one of the worst districts in all of Georgia in terms of quality of living.
3) Why in the world do you keep referencing tax returns? Even the insane race-baiter Lewis doesn't try to make that link to Russia.
Seriously dude, step away from the crack!
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 07:26:22 pm »



You should really make friends with Google search, because it can help with a lot of your inquiries... Multiple credible polls from places like Gallup and even Fox News...
 I'm illogical for getting upset at Donald Trump saying a Civil Rights leader who got his head cracked open by racist white people while trying to secure the right to vote for disenfranchised blacks is "all talk and no action" because of an opinion held by that Civil Rights leader? He's "all talk and no action" after nearly dying for something important and meaningful in this country? By saying that, Donald Trump has made an attempt to discredit the entire Civil Rights accomplishments. You, along with Trump and others, are disgusting for trying to minimize the heroic steps people like Dr. King and John Lewis took to bring about change.

So once again, Donald Trump can shut this whole thing down by releasing his tax returns (which other presidents have done) to prove he has no ties to Russia and that John Lewis nor anyone else can question his legitimacy to be our new commander-in-chief. If he continues to keep his tax returns hidden then he owes John Lewis an apology. This situation is going to go from bad to worse and it will be one of the things that defines the Trump presidency, I can guarantee you that.

A couple of things, but it is obvious that facts and logic don't play into your thinking:
1) Gallup did zero presidential polling in 2016, but anyone who thinks the polls were correct in 2016 must be standing on a very thin ledge to contort themselves into such a position as to see the rainbows and unicorns they must also see.
2) Why do you keep trying to obfuscate Trump's words to mean something entirely different than what they actually meant. He said nothing about Lewis' work 50 years ago as a civil rights protester-- he was CLEARLY referencing his current tenure in Congress, where Lewis has been nothing but a partisan hack, and who represents one of the worst districts in all of Georgia in terms of quality of living.
3) Why in the world do you keep referencing tax returns? Even the insane race-baiter Lewis doesn't try to make that link to Russia.
Seriously dude, step away from the crack!

Gallup is currently keeping track of President-elect Donald Trump, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about in your first point. I'm not talking about 2016, I'm talking about NOW as in this week, Trump is at between 37-39% approval and the handling of his transition is at a dismal 44%, those are numbers agreed upon by virtually everyone, including Kellyanne Conway. I'm not obfuscating any damn thing. He literally said that John Lewis was "all talk and no action." He didn't clarify what he meant, he didn't say currently. He simply said John Lewis was, "all talk and no action." To me and to many, many others; hearing someone describe a man who nearly died for believing in Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s vision is more than just heartbreaking. What in the hell has Donald Trump done to make things better in this country? Did he nearly die trying to help disenfranchised black people get the right to vote? Did he fight in any wars that were in our best interests as a country? This is why this whole situation is pushing me towards not supporting this incoming administration, whether he'll support LGBT rights or not.

And the fact that you're just perfectly fine with a man who will be our president not releasing his tax returns is highly disturbing. President Obama had to release his, on top of many other things, and his legitimacy was still questioned by the very man who is about to be our 45th President. FOR OVER 5 YEARS! A faction of the Republican party still believes President Obama was born in Kenya and/or is a Muslim. But we were all told to move on from that whole racist birther thing, right? Moving on from that, Trump needs to release his tax returns like every other president in recent history because it is his only way out of this mess. Why not shut down everyone by releasing them and proving there's nothing to hide?
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 07:39:13 pm »

Donald Trump centered his campaign around lies and making irrational claims without any evidence or proof. And now that there are some questioning his legitimacy, it's a problem? Like I've said, I believe he was legitimately elected by our democratic system. There's no denying he won the election freely and fairly at this point. However, that doesn't erase the effect Russia's hacking and the FBI's biased info leaking had on the election. Some people, especially those who have seen classified documents that we cannot see, have a right to question the legitimacy of Trump's win. They know things that we don't, and the only person who can put an end to it is Donald Trump himself. And until he does, there will be more rallies against him. There will be backlash against anyone who tries to normalize him. There will likely be riots. Look at the crowds that have been forming all around the country. They're not just black faces. One rally I saw was all white people (in a heavily Republican district) prepared to grill their Republican congressman for threatening to take away their healthcare. When the reporter talked to them, many of them stated they regretted voting for Trump. A large majority of this country is not happy about this incoming administration and now I'm one of them. You can look at the "How Obama Will Be Viewed..." thread and see exactly what I said about Donald Trump and Mike Pence; how I was ready to give them a chance before this week. My stance on race relations had absolutely nothing to do with my support of Donald Trump as our next president. I was willing to put some of his horrible statements to the side because I still believe he and Pence will not turn the clock back on LGBT rights. I really hope he'll either apologize to John Lewis or prove John Lewis wrong so that John Lewis will have to apologize to him. That is the only way I will support Trump again.
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2017, 07:47:10 pm »

Only one person here is constantly bringing up race and turning everything into a racist conspiracy theory and it's not the white people.   That's quite telling. 

Black people nearly dying because they wanted to vote is a "racist conspiracy theory?" What the hell is wrong with you? That is a part of my culture you piece of shit. Don't you dare call what happened to my ancestors a "racist conspiracy theory." You need to fucking clarify your statements.

^^^This is not a "racist conspiracy theory," it really happened! Are you out of your mind?
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2017, 08:05:27 pm »

                                        
I think it highly likely after reading many of your posts, including the ones here, raphjd, your dog thinks you are what he poops. Roll Eyes         
. . .
             
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