Why are #45 voters and supporters using the "idea" of Hillary now?
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Author Topic: Why are #45 voters and supporters using the "idea" of Hillary now?  (Read 1556 times)
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« on: April 06, 2017, 07:26:45 am »

Something very disturbing to me on here lately is how much those of you who voted for and/or support #45 keep using the "idea" of Hillary Clinton to argue against our criticisms of #45. You also refuse to hold him accountable for the things he says and does as president. First, you all need to come to the realization that he won. He is legitimately the president of the U.S. no matter what the Russian investigations end up revealing, if anything at all. If his campaign colluded with Russia, that does nothing to change the fact that he won the electoral college and there is no evidence that votes were manipulated. Second, Hillary Clinton lost; therefore, your constant pointing to her to counterbalance #45's shortfalls is wholly irrational and defeats whatever your argument is. Third, you cannot make the argument that she "would've or could've" because we live in reality, not some dream world where we can read fortunes or determine what actually would've or could've happened. We have an unpopular, arguably incompetent, president and no matter how much you try to argue, "But what about Hillary?" it changes nothing about the fact that we have an unpopular, arguably incompetent, president.

You can shout it until you're blue in the face, Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton is not our president and she is not making decisions in the White House that will effect our everyday lives.
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 07:47:54 am »

Number One: The national debt has continued to go down by billions of dollars since he has taken office. As far as I am aware, that has NEVER happened before, or at least in a VERY long time. Also look at all the job creation going on, millions of new jobs, and for the first time in a long time, those jobs aren't only in the "service sector." Just a few examples of improvements that have already happened in such a short time. The argument that he is incompetent doesn't really stand and it's way too early to tell.

Number Two: The only argument left is that Russia used ads to dupe the left into voting Trump, which is absurd. If you did get duped by Russian ads, well, you're not too bright now are you? The idea that he didn't win the popular vote is meaningless. There are more people in New York and California, but you obviously don't understand the concept of a Republic. This isn't the United States of California.
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 08:10:40 am »

Number One: The national debt has continued to go down by billions of dollars since he has taken office. As far as I am aware, that has NEVER happened before, or at least in a VERY long time. Also look at all the job creation going on, millions of new jobs, and for the first time in a long time, those jobs aren't only in the "service sector." Just a few examples of improvements that have already happened in such a short time. The argument that he is incompetent doesn't really stand and it's way too early to tell.

HAHAHAHA!!! What reality are you in? Wow.

Until October, we are still under President Obama's budget, any change to the deficit or debt are all thanks to Obama until then.


Jobs always grow more in the spring and rapidly right before summer. trumpenfuhrer's policies haven't had time to do anything yet, let alone the fact that none of the numbers aren't all that different than those under Obama. Jobs were already on the rise for the last few years, it's on the same trend, THANKS OBAMA! Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 08:13:07 am »

The debt is still going up, it can't start to go down until the deficit is taken care of. This is basic economics.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 08:32:36 am »

Once again, it is the usage of the "idea" of Hillary that I am arguing against here; that and #45's incompetence. He is the president and his voters and supporters are not holding him accountable to the things he has said and has done since taking office. When you question them, the unified response is, "But what about Hillary Clinton?" as if you all think she's the president also, and well, it doesn't work like that. We have one president and he is grossly incompetent. The quicker you own this mess the quicker we can get to coming together and fixing the mess. It's already happening here in South Carolina where we've had meetings with voters from all parties and positions on the political spectrum. Our senator, Lindsey Graham, mentioned #45 and he was booed endlessly by all of us in person. He has no more constituent meetings scheduled due to how chaotic it got. People are angry, including those here who voted for #45. The majority of folks there were his voters and they booed his name every single time it was mentioned.
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 08:33:06 am »

Number One: The national debt has continued to go down by billions of dollars since he has taken office. As far as I am aware, that has NEVER happened before, or at least in a VERY long time. Also look at all the job creation going on, millions of new jobs, and for the first time in a long time, those jobs aren't only in the "service sector." Just a few examples of improvements that have already happened in such a short time. The argument that he is incompetent doesn't really stand and it's way too early to tell.

Number Two: The only argument left is that Russia used ads to dupe the left into voting Trump, which is absurd. If you did get duped by Russian ads, well, you're not too bright now are you? The idea that he didn't win the popular vote is meaningless. There are more people in New York and California, but you obviously don't understand the concept of a Republic. This isn't the United States of California.

oh please

Exalt Trump to the heavens.. but use facts and use facts in context - Trump is not perfect.. and you really need to get that before you start again, because you can adore him till the cows come home but this blatant "he can do no wrong" crap is pure nonsense

you said it is too early to tell? but that he has done so much good? Which is it ? If it is too early to tell then, ok.. OR it's not too early to tell and he is the second coming of Christ and within a couple of months has affected a budget he has barely spoken about... which is it? you contradict your own argument

Bias is one thing.. bias without accountability is pure idealistic hero worship.. and, in politics, that gets messy (yes yes on both sides)

As for the republic thing.. he loves that.. he loves it so much that if you guys are not careful, you'll barely be importing anything and you are going to pay big out of your pockets  for things you take for granted right now...



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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 09:26:30 am »



   over 70 months of job growth and this took a great deal of effort in the first four years of Obama administration. Yes Obama had some very bad policy decisions, too many to name, but economics can not be changed in 2 or 3 months. This nation is a ship that can't be turned around as if it were a speedboat. We don't have any idea what will happen under Trump because he hasn't done anything other than appoint some cabinet window dressing. Most of the deputy and under secretaries have not even been appointed yet. They are the people that have the educations and abilities that will actual allow changes to be made. I am hopeful because not too much ever changes in "the Swamp" with out a huge amount of political capital which Trump may not be able to amass if he keeps lying.

Oh and btw, when Bill Clinton left office the nation was enjoying a prosperous tide with a financial surplus of over $800 billion. Facts they make a good argument even better.
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2017, 08:30:17 am »

Trump supporters dwell on the election because Trump dwells on the election.

I honestly do not think he expected to win- he just wanted the thrill of the campaign, he did not want the job itself.

One statement that he made that gets me is "who would have thought that health care would be this hard?"
Well, EVERYBODY thought that! That is why the GOP has not come up with any ideas in the past eight years!
Actually doing the work is hard, being a fat slob complaining on Twitter is easy!

So, since everything has been so awful since he got elected, he only wants to talk about his inauguration being the biggest, most massive inauguration ever in the history of inaugurations, and that Obama is spying on him in Trump Tower, and that Hillary is trying to undermine his administration.

The man can't do the job, and he can't admit he can't do the job, so he just talks about how proud he is that he GOT the job, and blames everyone else for his failures.
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2017, 05:42:17 am »


HAHAHAHA!!! What reality are you in? Wow.

Until October, we are still under President Obama's budget, any change to the deficit or debt are all thanks to Obama until then.


Jobs always grow more in the spring and rapidly right before summer. trumpenfuhrer's policies haven't had time to do anything yet, let alone the fact that none of the numbers aren't all that different than those under Obama. Jobs were already on the rise for the last few years, it's on the same trend, THANKS OBAMA! Smiley

If you ever post anything that is correct, I think I will drop dead of a heart attack.  I don't expect to be having a heart attack any time soon!
Even without a new BUDGET in place yet, the economy and job growth are already skyrocketing.  In fact, the economy was taking a sharp dive in the last couple of days before the election, but when Trump won - the economy instantly started rising and has continued to rise.  Just the promise of what Trump's plans to do is resulting in corporations hiring people, investing more, and the country is becoming revitalized.   Obama accomplished virtually NOTHING in 8 years.  In fact, one could argue that Trump has done more in 1 month than Obama did in 8 years.
I know you will continue to take a piss on Trump, and defend your heros Obama and Hillary.  Go ahead and knock yourself out.  You are only making a fool of yourself.  As time goes on.. the memories of Hillary and Obama will fade away like a ripe fart in the wind. 
Jimmy Carter loves Obama... for one reason.. now Jimmy is no longer the worst president ever. 
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2017, 05:51:32 am »

In fact, one could argue that Trump has done more in 1 month than Obama did in 8 years.[/quote]

One could also argue that statements like this are a crock of shit...

As for Hillary.. you are the one that keeps bringing her up.. most of the rest of us are more concerned about right now
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 06:17:48 am by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 03:27:37 am »



One statement that he made that gets me is "who would have thought that health care would be this hard?"


During the campaign he also said that all of his employees were having "tremendous" problems with ObamaCare.  He didn't seem to have any idea that his employees receive health insurance through his own company that he runs.  It doesn't give me a lot of confidence that he can overhaul the complicated healthcare system when he doesn't even have a basic  of understanding of ObamaCare or his own companies healthcare plan that he provides to his workers.
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 07:32:41 am »

In fact, one could argue that Trump has done more in 1 month than Obama did in 8 years.

One could also argue that statements like this are a crock of shit...

As for Hillary.. you are the one that keeps bringing her up.. most of the rest of us are more concerned about right now
[/quote]

I was happy to forget about Hillary, but she then started contemplating running for mayor of NYC.  That lasted a week or two and went nowhere... so she can go back in her cave.   
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 07:43:55 am »

In fact, one could argue that Trump has done more in 1 month than Obama did in 8 years.

One could also argue that statements like this are a crock of shit...

As for Hillary.. you are the one that keeps bringing her up.. most of the rest of us are more concerned about right now

I was happy to forget about Hillary, but she then started contemplating running for mayor of NYC.  That lasted a week or two and went nowhere... so she can go back in her cave.   
[/quote]

LOL

I think - regardless of anyone's opinion of her - 2016 kinda sealed it for her
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 10:24:51 am »

It doesn't matter that Hillary "came out of her cave" nor does it matter that OTHER PEOPLE speculated that she will make a run for NYC mayor. Hillary Clinton is a non-factor now and she is not our president, which means the actual president needs to be held accountable to the things he says and does. Hillary can go on TV and scream for 2 hours straight, it would not change the fact that so many of you #45 supporters refuse to hold the actual president accountable. Why are you so focused on an irrelevant person that's just as irrelevant as Mitt Romney or Bob Dole or Al Gore? One of the few recent losing candidates that has any ounce of power and/or influence is Senator John McCain because...you know...he's a freaking senator in the US Congress. At this point, any post about Hillary Clinton doing this or that is just irrational ranting.
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 01:05:29 pm »

Considering that most democrats (corporate democrats) still view her as the leader of the party I'd say that discussing her actions is quite relevant and rational. Especially now that she's resurfaced and is looking to run a third time for president. Can you imagine, the woman that lost to DJT is going to challenge him again in 2020?!

 It is possible to hold both DJT accountable and HRC. They're both horrible. One of them just doesn't hide it very well.
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2017, 03:38:33 pm »

It's your side that keeps the "not our president" and "yeah, but if Hillary won" crap going.     

There are still teachers/professors calling the election an act of terrorism/violence on the people of the US.   

You guys are just as bad as the Tea Party wanting the country to fail to prove Obama was bad. 
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2017, 06:58:02 pm »

It's your side that keeps the "not our president" and "yeah, but if Hillary won" crap going.     

There are still teachers/professors calling the election an act of terrorism/violence on the people of the US.   

You guys are just as bad as the Tea Party wanting the country to fail to prove Obama was bad. 

With Obama.. even though I despised him, I never hoped for the country to fail.  I dreaded how much damage Obama would do and whether the country could ever recover from it.  During the 8 year regime of Obama, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that Obama promised to end within the first year of his presidency are still going on.  ISIS was born and has thrived.  Terrorism has spread all over the world.  The debt went from $10 trillion to nearly $20 trillion. 
One reason Trump got elected is because there were enough people that realized that the USA could not endure another 4 years of the misguided policies of liberals like Obama.   The single biggest issue that boosted Hillary to nearly winning the election was her vow to make  taxpayer funded, guilt-free abortions, on-demand.. even up until the day of delivery.  Hillary must be very proud!   Evil Bitch! 
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2017, 10:21:24 pm »

Considering that most democrats (corporate democrats) still view her as the leader of the party I'd say that discussing her actions is quite relevant and rational. Especially now that she's resurfaced and is looking to run a third time for president. Can you imagine, the woman that lost to DJT is going to challenge him again in 2020?!

 It is possible to hold both DJT accountable and HRC. They're both horrible. One of them just doesn't hide it very well.

Is it 2020, sir? Has she said anything to make you believe she is running again? Where is your evidence? Where is video documented footage that she is running for president again? Is she the president right now? How can her actions effect us if she's not in the White House deploying troops, signing deals, meeting with our Congressional leaders? This is irrationality at its finest.

Edit: Hillary Clinton isn't the leader of anything. I am a registered Democrat and Hillary Clinton does not represent me, she is not my president, she holds no office with any power or influence in this entire country. This is my point. You people are attempting to say a private citizen who holds no office or official titles is the alt-president of the United States which is irrational. We do not have an alt-president, we have one president.
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2017, 10:36:04 pm »

It's your side that keeps the "not our president" and "yeah, but if Hillary won" crap going.     

There are still teachers/professors calling the election an act of terrorism/violence on the people of the US.   

You guys are just as bad as the Tea Party wanting the country to fail to prove Obama was bad. 

With Obama.. even though I despised him, I never hoped for the country to fail.  I dreaded how much damage Obama would do and whether the country could ever recover from it.  During the 8 year regime of Obama, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that Obama promised to end within the first year of his presidency are still going on.  ISIS was born and has thrived.  Terrorism has spread all over the world.  The debt went from $10 trillion to nearly $20 trillion. 
One reason Trump got elected is because there were enough people that realized that the USA could not endure another 4 years of the misguided policies of liberals like Obama.   The single biggest issue that boosted Hillary to nearly winning the election was her vow to make  taxpayer funded, guilt-free abortions, on-demand.. even up until the day of delivery.  Hillary must be very proud!   Evil Bitch! 

@raphjd, 95-98% of what you say is wholly irrational...you know the rest.

@raphjd and @Frederick, Hillary being proud or whatever you think she is once again is irrelevant to anything going on right now. She did not win, there are no "what ifs" in reality. People speculate all the time but what effect does that really have on our reality? He is our president and he is doing an awful job. He is surrounded by highly incompetent people which is why the world is testing our country right now. Yes, both sides have been doing the "he's not my president" crap; the Tea Party and far-right racists did it with Obama and now left-wing extremists are doing it with #45; but the reality remains he was legitimately elected and is our president. He's in the White House and he is making decisions that can effect all of our lives and the lives of people around the world. He needs to be held accountable and I'm glad the media is doing just that. This recent Sean Spicer situation is proof that the media has gotten their act together and will hold this administration accountable to its atrocities.

You can shout until you are blue in the face, Hillary Clinton is not our president and you cannot use the "idea" of her to lessen the impact of #45's incompetence. That is very irrational because we live in reality and we deal with the real world, not make-believe. The "idea" of Hillary running in 2020 or running for mayor has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with #45 making important decisions based on God knows what.
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2017, 11:02:09 pm »

Irrationality (noun): the quality of being illogical or unreasonable.
Irrational (adjective): not logical or reasonable.

"Barack Obama is still currently the president of the US" = irrational.
"Private citizen Hillary Clinton is more powerful than the actual president in 2017" = irrational.
"Russia actually changed physical votes in the 2016 election" = irrational.
"#45 hasn't been the president since January 20, 2017 12:00 PM EST" = irrational.
"It is currently the year 2016" = irrational.
"#45 is [X] because Hillary Clinton is [Y]"; "Well, Hillary Clinton believes [X]; therefore, #45 does [Y] = irrational, unless in a few instances such as, "#45 is the president because Hillary Clinton is the loser," or "Well, Hillary Clinton believes in the Constitution; therefore, #45 does have a right to say he is the legitimate president."

Many people in the president's administration may be highly incompetent and use doublespeak to confuse us, but we cannot allow that to change who we are as rational individuals. There are situations where you can be on more than one side; however, you cannot change reality to fit your perspective. My above examples are what you people have been doing on here, attempting to change reality. That is irrational no matter how you try to deflect from that fact, it is irrationality by actual definition. No, it is not still the year 2016. No, Hillary Clinton did not win the election. No, #45 actually is the legitimate president. With all of those truths, why are you attempting to deny the president's accountability using Hillary Clinton or any of the other aforementioned irrational reasons?
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