Gay marriage.. unsure of it's definition.
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Author Topic: Gay marriage.. unsure of it's definition.  (Read 568 times)
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« on: April 14, 2017, 04:54:40 pm »

People have been able to have civil unions for quite a long time.  I'm not sure how that compares to gay marriage. 

In a "traditional" marriage, I think that once the legal part of obtaining a marriage license is obtained, two people are legally married.  A religious ceremony nor any ceremony is necessary.. which blows the plots for so many TV shows and movies....   (correct me if I am wrong).

Also, I'm pretty sure that according to Catholic doctrine, the only valid marriage is one that results in procreation.   So, if someone is unable to produce children, or even if they do not decide to have children.. the marriage is considered null and void.  That probably is applied in the reverse perspective in that the Catholics don't consider a marriage to be binding until a child is produced.. which makes some sense.  Certainly once a child is produced.. the parents need to be held responsible and liable for caring for the child. 

Another weird aspect of marriage and children is.. even if a child is not the biological child of a man... but the man acts as the child's father, that man is legally obligated to care for that child as if it were his own.  That sometimes comes up when a man finds out that a child is not his biological child.. but is STILL legally responsible for raising that child. 

I'm not 100% sure of any of the above.. but please do a little research before disputing me about it.   Laws and religion are mercurial things... arbitrary and ambiguous if you will...
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 05:31:52 pm »

A "Ceremony/Joining" Religious or Not is required to become married this is the legal part as you call it.  There isn't always a need to obtain a marriage license, these are only required under certain circumstances.

The term / institution of marriage was adopted by the church and not invented/created by it, therefore they cannot enforce any of their doctrines other than within the church.  While Catholics may have their own ideas of marriage they have no legal standing.

As for the child issue neither a husband or wife has any legal obligation to take on the responsibility of their new partners children unless they legally adopt or take on legal guardianship of said child.  An example of this is when the biological parent dies their spouse does not automatically gain/take over legal responsibility for the child, who can be taken into care, handed to a member of the deceased's family such as a grandparent or even handed to the other biological parent.
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 06:01:17 pm »

Depending on where you live? That will determine what a marriage is.
Being married in the USA is diff from being married in the mid east , UK or Russia.

Here in the United states it changes from state to state. Some states require a ceremony of some kind. While others just require the paperwork.

Marriage here in the states is more of a legal contract than a religious symbol. By being married, it gives people legal responsibility for the other person and their affairs and property.
For example.
Say two people live together for 30 years and then one passes away.
If they were married? then all property and assets as well as liabilities transfer to the spouse.
But!
If they never legalized their union? After the death of one spouse, that spouse's family can come in and lay claim to everything in that person's name. Straight or gay.

Like I mentioned, it all depends on where you live.
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 01:06:27 am »

Depending on where you live? That will determine what a marriage is.
Being married in the USA is diff from being married in the mid east , UK or Russia.

Here in the United states it changes from state to state. Some states require a ceremony of some kind. While others just require the paperwork.

Marriage here in the states is more of a legal contract than a religious symbol. By being married, it gives people legal responsibility for the other person and their affairs and property.
For example.
Say two people live together for 30 years and then one passes away.
If they were married? then all property and assets as well as liabilities transfer to the spouse.
But!
If they never legalized their union? After the death of one spouse, that spouse's family can come in and lay claim to everything in that person's name. Straight or gay.

Like I mentioned, it all depends on where you live.

I'm pretty sure you are correct.   It's bizarre how a marriage in one state has vastly different consequences than in another state.  It can have a massive effect on who get's what in a divorce.
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 01:09:38 am »

A "Ceremony/Joining" Religious or Not is required to become married this is the legal part as you call it.  There isn't always a need to obtain a marriage license, these are only required under certain circumstances.

The term / institution of marriage was adopted by the church and not invented/created by it, therefore they cannot enforce any of their doctrines other than within the church.  While Catholics may have their own ideas of marriage they have no legal standing.

As for the child issue neither a husband or wife has any legal obligation to take on the responsibility of their new partners children unless they legally adopt or take on legal guardianship of said child.  An example of this is when the biological parent dies their spouse does not automatically gain/take over legal responsibility for the child, who can be taken into care, handed to a member of the deceased's family such as a grandparent or even handed to the other biological parent.

I think you are correct about all of that, with the possible exception of the responsibility for the children.   I have seen cases where the non-biological father was forced to pay child support even without adopting. 
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 01:44:02 am »

I think there is a legal definition. But apart from that, you define it as whatever you want
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 03:38:32 am »

Marriage:

1) A religious- or cultural-based union between two or more people for the purposes of creating a family unit.

2) A government- or society-sanctioned union between two or more people for the purposes of creating a family unit, where various rights and benefits are bestowed upon the party that would not otherwise be available to single people.

Gay marriage: Either of the above, where the parties involved are of the same gender.

Although for the purposes of the securing of rights, the second definition is the only one that's applicable. Due to the way that most mainstream religions systematically persecute LGBT people, basing marriage on religion is fundamentally problematic for us, and since atheism and agnosticism is much stronger among LGBT people than among heteros, we're only concerned about 1) the rights that are conferred to married couples and 2) the societal validation of LGBT relationships, both of which are extremely important to our moving forward as a socially accepted group.
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