Republican/conservative gays
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« on: April 21, 2017, 03:16:52 am »

Do they exist? Why do they exist? I don't understand how one can support an ideology that fights against one's rights to equality. If there are any here, please share your thoughts on republicans/conservatives and their views on lgbt rights. I'm not affiliated with any political ideologies but I do have a strong dislike for inequality. And in today's America, it is pretty evident which party is in favor of equality, and which party is not.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 07:17:10 pm by (Hidden) » Logged


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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 03:21:49 am »

Before this last election & primaries, I would have agreed. NOW, both are shit.  censored
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 03:25:02 am »

Right. My view on politics is simply vote for the lesser of two evils :p
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 03:24:58 am »

Do they exist? Why do they exist? I don't understand how one can support an ideology that fights against one's rights to equality. If there are any here, please share your thoughts on republicans/conservatives and their views on lgbt rights. I'm not affiliated with any political ideologies but I do have a strong dislike for inequality. And in today's America, it is pretty evident which party is in favor of equality, and which party is not.

I think it is very fluid - I think this site is a great example of it being fluid.. i have conservative friends who are enthusiastic about equality but are conservative in their financial opinions etc - when these friends are discussing financial issues, it seems they are very right wing but as soon as they discuss equality they seem less right wing

The right vs left thing is also not black and white - i consider myself centre left but i would hazard to guess that many would see me as extreme left - basically because i am not extreme right, if that makes sense ?

Very very few people are 100% right or 100% left - I think, for most people, it is issue by issue

e.g. your thoughts on the economy may go way right but your thoughts on e.g. abortion may go more left or vice versa
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 03:27:54 am »

Alright, fair enough. That makes a bit sense to me.
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 03:58:09 am »

Part of it is generational. Those of us over 50 or even 40 remember how awful it was being gay in the US, and how the Democrats were the party who advanced all LGBT rights, and the Republicans were the ones who blocked it.

For Milineals, while being gay is not perfect, it has no where near the problems we had, so they forget their history and just fall for the same brainwashing as straight conservatives do.

When the biggest political hot potato LGBTs face is where trans people can go to the bathroom, it is easy to see why young gay men will not think LGBT rights issues are a priority anymore.

I have noticed the same with young women talking about how bad feminism is, showing they have no clue what their lives would be like if there were no feminists.
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 04:04:04 am »

As for social issues vs fiscal issues- I use the terms "conservative" and "liberal" specifically for the social issues.

We have far more specific terms for economic positions- Free Market Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Supply-Side Economics, Demand-Side Economics, etc.

For the social issues- conservativism is complete idiocy, and yes, for a gay person to be a republican is like a black person being in the kkk, or a jewish person being a nazi.

Gay people who do not like the Democrat's positions on economic issues should be Libertarians, not Republicans.
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 04:26:51 am »

Contrary to the people on here who keep screaming about "identity politics," most people feel very differently on a whole host of issues and most of us can differentiate between having a real position on something and being a hateful crazy troll Crazy? It's not about "identity politics" it's about us all being individuals. I said in another post on here why it's very possible for gay conservatives to exist, both for fiscal reasons and for personal value reasons and various other reasons. Someone else posted on here about the generational aspect of it, some gays remember a better time and from their perspective, some things shouldn't have changed or at least shouldn't have changed in the way they did. Who are we to say they are wrong? Yes bounds get overstepped when we start requesting laws to restrict people's freedoms, but overall I truly believe most people want the best for others but they want it to happen on their own selfish terms. There's a huge difference in conservatives saying "I don't agree with how the left sees the LGBT community" (as one monolithic group instead of a group of individual people who happen to be gay, bi, etc.) and a conservative saying "I don't agree with LGBT 'lifestyles;'" and too many times people conflate those very, very different viewpoints.
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 07:48:13 am »

I see RoyalCrown is still name calling those he disagrees with.   

I love how the left refuses to admit that the lunatic identity politics had anything to do with Trump winning.   Over the last few months, I have posted about these things and the left seems to ignore or deny that it's going on.   

I pointed out how blacks are privileged in that they were able to get away with things that whites would never be allowed to do, such as the "white people go around" forcing white students to walk through a creek to get to class while the police stood by and stopped white students from fighting back. 

BLM chanting about killing cops, blocking road, preventing ambulances from getting through, while ignoring black victims of black crime.

The list is never ending.   

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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 08:20:32 am »

Part of it is generational. Those of us over 50 or even 40 remember how awful it was being gay in the US, and how the Democrats were the party who advanced all LGBT rights, and the Republicans were the ones who blocked it.

For Milineals, while being gay is not perfect, it has no where near the problems we had, so they forget their history and just fall for the same brainwashing as straight conservatives do.

When the biggest political hot potato LGBTs face is where trans people can go to the bathroom, it is easy to see why young gay men will not think LGBT rights issues are a priority anymore.

I have noticed the same with young women talking about how bad feminism is, showing they have no clue what their lives would be like if there were no feminists.


I gotta stop you right there. Bill Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act into law. The problem is that people conflate and confuse the terms Conservative and Liberal. Conservatism is about Preservation, while Liberalism leads to waste. Just look at Obama's path of destruction... Doubled the debt to almost 20 TRILLION, more than all Presidents ever, combined. This is a mess that the liberals created and the conservatives were bullied into feeling that if they spoke out against it, they would just be called racist. Talk about fascism...
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 08:33:44 am »

Don't forget Clinton also signed Don't Ask, Don't Tell.   Under that program, we saw the most people kicked out of the military for being gay.
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 08:57:05 am »

Please, don't turn this into another flame war between parties. I've seen enough of that childishness in the other threads. I'm just curious about conservative gays.

I get that some gays may support republicans in certain issues - but do they vote for them, though? I value freedom and equality above everything else. By those standards alone, I wouldn't vote for a party that would deny me, or anybody else, those rights. So I'm curious, how do gays reason when they vote republican? The republican party has done very little, if anything at all, in terms of showing support for lgbt rights. In some cases, they down right do the opposite. The democrats, while certainly not perfect, are at least more progressive in that area. Like I said: the lesser of two evils.
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 08:59:12 am »

Don't forget Clinton also signed Don't Ask, Don't Tell.   Under that program, we saw the most people kicked out of the military for being gay.

Yea, forgot about that one!
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 09:08:29 am »

Please, don't turn this into another flame war between parties. I've seen enough of that childishness in the other threads. I'm just curious about conservative gays.

I get that some gays may support republicans in certain issues - but do they vote for them, though? I value freedom and equality above everything else. By those standards alone, I wouldn't vote for a party that would deny me, or anybody else, those rights. So I'm curious, how do gays reason when they vote republican? The republican party has done very little, if anything at all, in terms of showing support for lgbt rights. In some cases, they down right do the opposite. The democrats, while certainly not perfect, are at least more progressive in that area. Like I said: the lesser of two evils.

Look, I don't need a license to marry. In order to get a license, you need to apply, and apply means to beg for permission. It's a first amendment religious right. I don't need to ask for permission. You need a license to rape murder or steal? No. The govt. can only grant license to do things that are already lawful to do. You need a license to hunt, fish, practice law or medicine, drive or smoke marijuana. That's because the government can't grant you a license to do things you already have the lawful right to do, and why would you beg for permission to do something you can already do other than to pay them a fee. An analogy to explain the real difference between liberty and freedom is that a sailor can only have the liberty to leave the ship. He doesn't have the freedom. He has to ask for permission. Gay people already have the right to marry because it's a religious institution protected by the first amendment. That's why gay people were already getting married before all this Supreme Court stuff, and guess what else? The Judicial Branch doesn't have the authority to interpret the law, that's why we have a jury who can NULLIFY anything they say, under other rights in the 9th and 10th amendments. I don't like the idea of asking for permission to do something that I already lawfully have the right to do, as I'm not killing anyone or violating anyone's rights. The idea is so disgusting to me because you are begging for permission - that's the opposite of freedom. It means you are a slave or a dog who needs to do things that are already your God Given Inalienable Rights that you were BORN with. It is your birthright, and nobody seems to be thinking about that. You are trading your rights for privileges and allowing the government to dictate when they never had the authority to do so.
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 09:17:46 am »

Please, don't turn this into another flame war between parties. I've seen enough of that childishness in the other threads. I'm just curious about conservative gays.

I get that some gays may support republicans in certain issues - but do they vote for them, though? I value freedom and equality above everything else. By those standards alone, I wouldn't vote for a party that would deny me, or anybody else, those rights. So I'm curious, how do gays reason when they vote republican? The republican party has done very little, if anything at all, in terms of showing support for lgbt rights. In some cases, they down right do the opposite. The democrats, while certainly not perfect, are at least more progressive in that area. Like I said: the lesser of two evils.

Look, I don't need a license to marry. In order to get a license, you need to apply, and apply means to beg for permission. It's a first amendment religious right. I don't need to ask for permission. You need a license to rape murder or steal? No. The govt. can only grant license to do things that are already lawful to do. You need a license to hunt, fish, practice law or medicine, drive or smoke marijuana. That's because the government can't grant you a license to do things you already have the lawful right to do, and why would you beg for permission to do something you can already do other than to pay them a fee. An analogy to explain the real difference between liberty and freedom is that a sailor can only have the liberty to leave the ship. He doesn't have the freedom. He has to ask for permission. Gay people already have the right to marry because it's a religious institution protected by the first amendment. That's why gay people were already getting married before all this Supreme Court stuff, and guess what else? The Judicial Branch doesn't have the authority to interpret the law, that's why we have a jury who can NULLIFY anything they say, under other rights in the 9th and 10th amendments. I don't like the idea of asking for permission to do something that I already lawfully have the right to do, as I'm not killing anyone or violating anyone's rights. The idea is so disgusting to me because you are begging for permission - that's the opposite of freedom. It means you are a slave or a dog who needs to do things that are already your God Given Inalienable Rights that you were BORN with. It is your birthright, and nobody seems to be thinking about that. You are trading your rights for privileges and allowing the government to dictate when they never had the authority to do so.

It's about equality. I don't think you understand that. And gay rights extend way beyond just the marriage issue.
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 09:37:46 am »

Please, don't turn this into another flame war between parties. I've seen enough of that childishness in the other threads. I'm just curious about conservative gays.

I get that some gays may support republicans in certain issues - but do they vote for them, though? I value freedom and equality above everything else. By those standards alone, I wouldn't vote for a party that would deny me, or anybody else, those rights. So I'm curious, how do gays reason when they vote republican? The republican party has done very little, if anything at all, in terms of showing support for lgbt rights. In some cases, they down right do the opposite. The democrats, while certainly not perfect, are at least more progressive in that area. Like I said: the lesser of two evils.

Look, I don't need a license to marry. In order to get a license, you need to apply, and apply means to beg for permission. It's a first amendment religious right. I don't need to ask for permission. You need a license to rape murder or steal? No. The govt. can only grant license to do things that are already lawful to do. You need a license to hunt, fish, practice law or medicine, drive or smoke marijuana. That's because the government can't grant you a license to do things you already have the lawful right to do, and why would you beg for permission to do something you can already do other than to pay them a fee. An analogy to explain the real difference between liberty and freedom is that a sailor can only have the liberty to leave the ship. He doesn't have the freedom. He has to ask for permission. Gay people already have the right to marry because it's a religious institution protected by the first amendment. That's why gay people were already getting married before all this Supreme Court stuff, and guess what else? The Judicial Branch doesn't have the authority to interpret the law, that's why we have a jury who can NULLIFY anything they say, under other rights in the 9th and 10th amendments. I don't like the idea of asking for permission to do something that I already lawfully have the right to do, as I'm not killing anyone or violating anyone's rights. The idea is so disgusting to me because you are begging for permission - that's the opposite of freedom. It means you are a slave or a dog who needs to do things that are already your God Given Inalienable Rights that you were BORN with. It is your birthright, and nobody seems to be thinking about that. You are trading your rights for privileges and allowing the government to dictate when they never had the authority to do so.

It's about equality. I don't think you understand that. And gay rights extend way beyond just the marriage issue.


Nah, it's about you promoting this slavery thing and trading your rights in for mere privileges and being a coward who can't recognize the difference between freedom and liberty. The left wants to use force to make people recognize them while forgetting the bigger picture. Standing for rights is more important than standing for equality, that's the difference. And the reason is because we are all individuals and equal. No one can speak for any group just because of identity politics. Everyone has individual rights, and you are promoting group rights.
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 10:13:51 am »

Quote
Please, don't turn this into another flame war between parties. I've seen enough of that childishness in the other threads.

You really need to talk to your fellow liberals then.    

Quote
I get that some gays may support republicans in certain issues - but do they vote for them, though? I value freedom and equality above everything else. By those standards alone, I wouldn't vote for a party that would deny me, or anybody else, those rights. So I'm curious, how do gays reason when they vote republican? The republican party has done very little, if anything at all, in terms of showing support for lgbt rights. In some cases, they down right do the opposite. The democrats, while certainly not perfect, are at least more progressive in that area. Like I said: the lesser of two evils.

Have you paid attention to the other topics here?    I think both sides have set out why they believe the way they do.  

I fucking despise identity politics, like the crap we have been seeing the last 10 years or so.  

NYC, Canada and others are punishing people for using the personal pronouns and/or mis-gendering people.  NYC fines businesses $125,000 for accidentally mis-gendering a person, EACH TIME.  

Wearing boys' underwear does not make you trans.  It makes you a girl who wears boys' underwear.  

Occasionally wearing jeans does not make you gender fluid.  It makes you a girl who occasionally wears jeans.

Wearing lipstick and nail polish does not make you a trans hetero lesbian.  It makes you a dude who wears lipstick and nail polish, who likes girls.  

If you are a girl, dress as a girl and act extremely girly, don't demand that everyone treat you like a trans boy.   You are not trans anything, you are an attention whore.   Your bullshit has made it worse for the real trans-sexual in your school, you selfish cunt!!!

Of course there's the "state sanctioned" anti white events like "white people go around" at Berkley where the police were there to make sure the whites were compliant, not to stop the white hating event.  

The black girl and her cuck, at SFU, trying to cut a white guys hair because it offended them.  

That white woman running for the Chair of the DNC saying her job is to shut white people down.

Mainstream media, especially CNN, refusing to call the Chicago kidnapping a hate crime, even after they were charged with hate crimes after they admitted it was their reason for doing it.  

Simone Sanders saying "Ah poor, poor white people" about the video of the white guy getting dragged out of his car and beaten by 7 black people and them stealing his car.  Her cuck, Don Lemon, just nodded in agreement.

Everything about BLM is bullshit.  

Social media bans for "fuck black people" but supports "fuck white people".     You can post ISIS beheading people and other pro-islam propaganda, but don't say anything that isn't pro-Islam.  

The west has whitewashed the muslim issue.   Western countries are killing free speech so as not to offend muslims.  

Everything about feminism.  

The list is never ending.  

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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 10:31:14 am »

I'm sorry some of you feel the way you do. I'm not going to try to change your minds because I believe people are who they are, they don't change. All I can say is that I hope you can find a way to be happy because I sense a lot of self-hatred and confusion. And I am disappointed you can't hold a constructive and civilized political discussion.
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 09:52:29 pm »

I'd consider myself conservative, or at least more than most.  I think what I fall back on may be a sort of libertarian principle.  You can't force your beliefs on people.  Just like you don't want people forcing their religion on you, you shouldn't force your politics on them.  You can state your point of view, but it shouldn't be a crime for them to disagree with you.  So, I'm against any law that tries to stomp out opposing views.  Opposing views are good for society.  Free speech matters.  The better ideas will win the day, but you can't say the bad ideas can't be voiced. That's a slippery slope.
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 09:54:10 pm »

Oh, I forgot to say that, the free speech and right to hold opposing views is why I am in favor of the conservative principle for people to be able to live their lives (personal or business) in the ways they want.  If you don't like their beliefs. Don't shop at their stores.  Live and let live - goes both ways.
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