Marine Le Pen the Trump of France?
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Author Topic: Marine Le Pen the Trump of France?  (Read 912 times)
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« on: April 22, 2017, 08:39:32 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtrWz4p7H28
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 09:20:05 am »

marine lepen is not related to trump. Sure she applauded when he made cars companies to go back in the US. What she liked was that Trump said during his campaign he will not interfere in the world like Hilary would have. But very recent events showed that he lied and so she said she was quite disappointed.
Also the video is wrong " if you are a suspect you'r out of here". No . There is a list made by intelligence services called S. most of people in this file are foreigners on french soil. To be on that list you need to have real facts of " intelligence with the enemy". that last sentence is law and can put you in jail for over 30 years if you are french. If you are not, then she said , you have nothing to do on our soil. So it's a bit different that what Fox said. The rest of the video is totally true.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 09:27:28 am by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 09:27:04 am »

Trump has said that he won't punish countries for leaving the EU.   

That is the opposite stance of the Obama admin, which included Hillary. 
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 09:30:32 am »

either way she wont be elected unfortunately. The second round forbids that. Too many "new frenchs" and liberals in France and pro european by numbers so it makes it impossible.
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 12:24:41 pm »

Trump has said that he won't punish countries for leaving the EU.   

That is the opposite stance of the Obama admin, which included Hillary. 

Obama didn't say that Britain would be 'punished'. Neither did Hillary. Don't spread lies!
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 12:51:29 pm »

Yeah, ok.   
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 06:58:49 pm »

unofficial results says Macron is leading  Angry , Le pen " might " be second. Real result at 20h GMT+1

UPDATE: indeed it was true.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 08:04:01 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 09:34:28 pm »

Obama nor Hillary said they were going to punish Britain. Obama said Britain would be at the back of the queue but retracted the statement after they actually voted for Brexit and said they would work with them. To say that the EU is a failure is to say the union of states or the United States is a failure. Should the blue state that account for 64% of the economy just leave just because red states are a burden based on raw GDP and taxes? There are commodities beyond raw GDP that a union of countries provide. The EU gives a financial status that allows these countries to stand financial above the US and to have relevant talking points. It provides them an ease of markets and financial markets across borders. It just goes on and on. Britain has already lost a lot of money from the initiation of Brexit and are slated to lose more money. They are expected to lose another 12% of their GDP from losing banks alone.  There are problems that need to be resolved but invoking solutions that are irreparable when we gather a modicum of sense later is not the way.
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 02:39:53 am »

So Obama DID threaten the UK.  I'm glad someone can admit that.   

The histrionics is amazing.   You automatically conflate the EU with the US.   They aren't the same.   

Also, the UK only voted to join the economic union, not a political one and especially not the crap that the EU has turned into.   
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 08:59:30 am »

Trump has said that he won't punish countries for leaving the EU.   

That is the opposite stance of the Obama admin, which included Hillary. 

you are one dumb racist son of a bitch! you need mental help kid...how old are you? 49 or 9? i'm 37 and i act more like a man than you. i've insulted you and all you come up with is "liberal this" and "liberal that" damn kid....if your boytoy donald j trump insulted you...would he then be a "liberal" too? you like most republicans are so dumb that you'd think that he was a liberal if he insulted your bitch ass!
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 08:48:34 pm »

Macron Cheers
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 09:04:01 pm »

The problem with mainstream politics in many European countries including France is that perfectly reasonable debates are being shut down and labelled as "racist" or "xenophobe" or "islamophobe" even when some of the key people leading those debates are immigrants or Muslims. There's a problem with Islamic ideology in Europe where second and third generation European-born, middle class people are becoming increasingly radicalized because they think their secular parents who immigrated from the Middle East or North Africa during the last century don't follow true Islam.

Terrorism is being normalized as part of daily life and it will certainly affect tourism revenue. I've been avoiding France and French airports due to the terrorism threat whenever I travel to Europe. There's no way to deny the problem when millennials and LGBT which are some of the most traditionally left wing groups out there are supporting a conservative candidate in large numbers.
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2017, 10:42:13 am »

Globalism vs Nationalism. Globalism is open borders and ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT - DICTATORSHIP run by BANKS the IMF. National Sovereignty is cultural and individual and unique. BIG difference.
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2017, 12:45:57 pm »

The problem with mainstream politics in many European countries including France is that perfectly reasonable debates are being shut down and labelled as "racist" or "xenophobe" or "islamophobe" even when some of the key people leading those debates are immigrants or Muslims. There's a problem with Islamic ideology in Europe where second and third generation European-born, middle class people are becoming increasingly radicalized because they think their secular parents who immigrated from the Middle East or North Africa during the last century don't follow true Islam.

Terrorism is being normalized as part of daily life and it will certainly affect tourism revenue. I've been avoiding France and French airports due to the terrorism threat whenever I travel to Europe. There's no way to deny the problem when millennials and LGBT which are some of the most traditionally left wing groups out there are supporting a conservative candidate in large numbers.

I don't think this is true. I am ready to be corrected, but I am not aware of any reasonable public debate in France that has been "shut down" or labelled as racist and Islamophobic. In fact the public debate in France is extremely robust. This idea that people raising genuine and legitimate critiques of Islam are being oppressed and stifled just does not wash with me. In fact, I think this claim is itself an attempt to distract attention from a much bigger and more pressing problem in France: genuine institutionalised racism and prejudice in French society.

It is certainly true that second and third-generation Arabs are turning their backs on the liberalism of their parents, and questions need to be asked about why this is. It also needs to be asked why this is happening in France so much more than in other countries: radicalisation of young Muslims is not an exclusively French problem, but it seems to be a far more serious issue in France than in it is in - say - Britain or Germany or Scandinavia. France has a really serious problem with disaffected and marginalised young Muslims who were born in France but do not feel French, and feel they have no stake in their own country or in the values of the Republic. And it is of course perfectly legitimate to ask whether this problem is related to the nature of Islam. But it is also necessary to ask whether this problem has anything to do with the nature of France.

Finally, yes, terrorism is a fact of life. But it's nothing new. In much of Europe (Spain, Britain, Italy), terrorism has been a fact of life for decades. France has suffered terrorism continuously throughout the twentieth century from all manner of political and religious groups. It's nothing new, but it is a fact of life and people live with it: like the posters say, we "keep calm and carry on." You are considerably more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by a terrorist. You're more likely to slip and break your neck on a bathmat. So you might want to lower your umbrella when you go out in a storm, but avoiding French airports because of a negligible risk is just silly.

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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2017, 01:45:20 pm »

Muslims are always muslim first and last.  They don't care where they live, they always view themselves as muslim, not their nationality. 
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2017, 05:08:28 pm »

Muslims are always muslim first and last.  They don't care where they live, they always view themselves as muslim, not their nationality. 

That's only partly true. Muslims are indeed Muslims first, always. Just as most Christians are - I hope - Christian first, Jews Jews first, and so on.  I don't see any point in having a religion unless it is a central and defining part of your identity. If it's just a hobby you have to give you something to do on Sunday mornings, then I don't see why you would bother (and I don't think it would do you any good). Hard as it may be for secularists to understand or accept, religion is - for almost all religious people - the central core of their identity and experience.

But it is a lie to say that Muslims have no sense of their nationality or loyalty to their country. This is totally and emphatically untrue. British Islam is an excellent example of a hybrid national/religious identity, and perhaps it is so strong because it has formed over a relatively long period of time. British Muslims are clearly different from Muslims everywhere else. They share an awful lot of British values. Many of them are much more proud of being British than their non-Muslim neighbours (almost absurdly so to my admittedly cynical eyes). And they play a major role in our public life: we now have a Muslim cabinet minister, a Muslim mayor of London, Muslim heads of Oxbridge colleges.

The suggestion that Islam is somehow antithetical to any other sort of identity or incapable of assimilation is simply and transparently false.
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2017, 10:38:22 pm »

Look at the polls.   Muslims don't support western life, like the SJWs want us to believe. 
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2017, 08:56:08 am »

Look at the polls.   Muslims don't support western life, like the SJWs want us to believe. 

Well when it comes to that, there are quite a lot of aspects of "Western life" that I don't support either, and I'm not a Muslim. And from your posts here I gather that there are quite a lot of aspects of "Western life" that you are critical of. (Your attitude towards the NHS, for instance, would certainly place you in a minority of the population).

Working out exactly what "Western life" is and what values are defining of "Western societies" is much more difficult than you might think. But rather than looking at tendentious polls I'd suggest you look at the evidence of your eyes:  Muslims are integrated into British life at every level. That's not to say there aren't problems and issues that need to be resolved, and maybe questions that Muslims need collectively to address.  But the fact that so many Muslims quite evidently do share "British values" and feel British makes a nonsense of the claim that there is some intrinsic problem with the nature of Islam that prevents Muslims from adopting any other national identity.  Quite obviously "Britishness" (or "Frenchness", or "Westerness") are not mutually incompatible with Islam. Or at least they do not need to be so.
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2017, 10:06:01 am »

Quote
Muslims are integrated into British life at every level.
the topic was about france, and France doesn't work at all like US/UK concerning religion. It's not a country of communities. We have a law from 1905 saying the state is secular which is in fact incompatible with their views as they are very reluctant to obey these rules. Like no sign of your religion in public school. And no Jews and catholics apply these rules without making a fuss like they do.
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2017, 01:05:01 pm »


the topic was about france, and France doesn't work at all like US/UK concerning religion. It's not a country of communities. We have a law from 1905 saying the state is secular which is in fact incompatible with their views as they are very reluctant to obey these rules. Like no sign of your religion in public school. And no Jews and catholics apply these rules without making a fuss like they do.

And that, I think, is precisely the problem. The French adherence to the ideal of militant secularism in public life is, in my view, very deeply damaging. And the idea that France is somehow a single national community that must transcend all other loyalties is so obviously deluded that I amazed that so many French people still cling to it. France has never been like that. France has always been deeply divided - over politics, over religion, over regionalism and over language.  It is of course not true that "Jews and Catholics apply these rules without making a fuss." The 1905 secularism law is deeply loathed by many communities in France, and also ignored by many. But the law is also selectively applied: Jews who wear a kippah or Sikhs who wear a turban are not targeted for discrimination in France in the same way that women who wear the hijab are.

I have deep affection for France, but I dislike the hypocrisy that surrounds the public rhetoric of secularism. And I fear for France, because I think that the ideological pretence of being a single national community in which differences of ethnicity and religion don't matter is actually concealing deep and painful divisions that are manifested in a whole range of ways - including Islamist terrorism.  It is perhaps time for France to ask whether the law of 1905 really meets the needs and identity of French society in 2017.
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