Call to shift burden of proof to rape-accused
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« on: June 05, 2017, 06:56:20 pm »

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/329767/call-to-shift-burden-of-proof-to-rape-accused


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Labour's sexual violence spokesperson, Mrs Williams has called for radical reform of the sexual justice system which would see rape accusers believed by police as a starting point.

This would place the burden of proof on the accused - directly contradicting the philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty". 

I said this, in general, in a previous thread but I was called a liar. 
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2017, 07:13:42 pm »

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/329767/call-to-shift-burden-of-proof-to-rape-accused


Quote
Labour's sexual violence spokesperson, Mrs Williams has called for radical reform of the sexual justice system which would see rape accusers believed by police as a starting point.

This would place the burden of proof on the accused - directly contradicting the philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty". 

I said this, in general, in a previous thread but I was called a liar. 


The philosophy of "innocent until proven guilty" is an ideal that isn't recognized in the USA.  People are almost always arrested at the local level, not Federal.  And local enforcers get away with doing anything they want. 
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 11:32:23 am »

Liberals are willing to down vote those who expose liberals, but they won't condemn lunatic crap from their fellow liberals. 

It just more proof that, except for a tiny portion, liberals are fucking lunatics en masse.   

We already saw how butt hurt they got when 6 of their own condemned the violence on both sides.   Hell, they even down voted the conservatives who condemned the violence on both sides.   Clearly, liberals (extreme vast majority) support violence to achieve their goals.
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 03:29:19 pm »

I know I did that post about not reply to you and stuff but I have to ask, you do know this is a New Zealand political thing right? How many New Zealand centric political groups are you a part of to know what is or isn't debated by liberals there? How much do you even know about New Zealand rape statistics and conviction? You're using this article about a country you do not come from or know about to further your point about something in totally unrelated countries. You can't blanket statement rape solutions on a world wide basis, countries need culturally targeted and specific legislation to fix their own rape problems.
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 03:36:25 pm »

New Zealand is based in western (UK) law, where people are innocent until proven guilty.    This feminist politician wants to reverse that only for rape/sexual assault. 

What more needs to be said? 
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 03:43:25 pm »

A lot needs to be said, you are taking what she said as a way to discredit feminism or liberalism without actually looking at the wider context of the country it originated from. While New Zealand might be a former colony and still have UK based legal system, it is a totally different environment culturally and statistically.

If you looked up that woman you would know she doesn't have the political power to do more than just say what she thinks
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 03:47:57 pm »

Your post makes no sense. 

She is a politician.   So she has more power than most.   She's also a feminist and liberal. 

She's not the 1st feminist/liberal to call for this. 
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 03:53:25 pm »

You clearly have no idea about the country it came from then. New Zealand is so politically lax that no one gives any shits about what anyone but the prime minister and the various heads of different departments say, even then people struggle to care. She is a district MP for a city that literally the government does not care about as they have left it in basically ruins for the past 6 years and everyone else but those that live there have stopped caring about too.

I guaranty you, almost no one but you and me read that article.

Edit: I also forgot to add, you are missing one of my first points. You do not know what is/isn't debated by feminists and liberals in New Zealand. Even though I guaranty you that nobody even took any notice what this woman said, how do you know that it wasn't debated by other liberals and feminists in the country? You don't, you have no knowledge of what goes on in those circles because you do not take part in any of them.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 04:31:48 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 05:11:51 pm »

Clearly you are trying to spin this to lessen the blowback on liberals and feminists.   

AGAIN, she is a liberal and feminist and she is advocating to completely flip the law so that those accused of rape/sexual assault are guilty unless proven innocent.   

Instead of being outraged, you are defending her by saying "who cares what she advocates, she's just an MP in New Zealand".     Would you feel the same if she called for killing gays or muslims? 
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 05:21:39 pm »

While I was saying she has no political pull just as an addition, my main point is this. How do you know what is and isn't discussed by feminist in New Zealand? How do you know ALL feminist in New Zealand want this? How do you know that this isn't a divisive issue amongst them? What knowledge do you have about feminist discussions that take place in New Zealand? You are using this ONE woman as proof of something you have no knowledge of.

You also have no idea how the day to day practice and culture around convictions works in New Zealand. There is no Innocent until proven guilty, it's only that on paper.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 05:41:55 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 07:34:29 pm »

She's not the only feminist and liberal to say this.  No it's not just a single one in New Zealand. 

And using your logic, you can't talk about anything unless you know everything about everything and know how everyone in that country feels about it. 
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 08:59:13 pm »

No I'm saying you can't talk about a country when you don't even have a basic understanding of that country, if you did you would know why what she said was ignored. No one noticed it and no one would care even if they did. All the feminists I know would see through what she said because it doesn't fully tackle the issue, even though it might go against "innocent until proven guilty" that isn't something that people (unless they are politicians) care about or even believe actually happens.

There are things you can bring up by feminists that have global significance, I'm not saying that what each feminist says needs to have the backdrop of their home country and a full understanding of that. Just when it's about a specific country's legal system, the context of where it was said is very important.
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2017, 10:03:20 pm »

While I was saying she has no political pull just as an addition, my main point is this. How do you know what is and isn't discussed by feminist in New Zealand? How do you know ALL feminist in New Zealand want this? How do you know that this isn't a divisive issue amongst them? What knowledge do you have about feminist discussions that take place in New Zealand? You are using this ONE woman as proof of something you have no knowledge of.

You also have no idea how the day to day practice and culture around convictions works in New Zealand. There is no Innocent until proven guilty, it's only that on paper.

Are there separate laws in New Zealand when it comes to raping a woman or raping a sheep?
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2017, 10:19:54 pm »

It's obviously not just New Zealand going through this.  For example:

https://i.redd.it/ticpt4c6bu1z.jpg
Call to shift burden of proof to rape-accused


These type of posters are up across all over U.S. campuses.  The message is clear: an accusation is sufficient to assume guilt.  Guilty until proven innocent.  
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 08:08:24 am »

A feminist politician says that we have to do GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT and you tell me I can't talk about her until I learn everything about NZ and know what all feminists feel/believe there. 

Bullshit.

She is another feminist who wants to change the law against males.  It isn't just some cow in NZ, feminists all over the world are calling for this kind of crap.

The feminists you know in NZ wouldn't lift a finger if this politician tried to get the law to change.  Sofa feminists claim to be "good", but they are useless.   They are the ones that go to the women's march and end up doing islamic prayers, despite supposedly being atheists.



I talked about this before, but I was falsely accused of rape 7 years ago.    I'm grateful for CCTV at the pub.   I still had to sit in jail for nearly 19 hours.  It was revenge because we wouldn't take her out "gay clubbing".   

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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2017, 12:25:09 am »

I talked about this before, but I was falsely accused of rape 7 years ago.    I'm grateful for CCTV at the pub.   I still had to sit in jail for nearly 19 hours.  It was revenge because we wouldn't take her out "gay clubbing".   

Wow that's totally fucked up!
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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2017, 09:10:09 am »

Even worse, I am legally prevented from outing her.    Her privacy is still protected, but mine is public record.
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