Civility Poll
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« on: June 19, 2017, 03:28:02 am »

Please take the time to respond to this poll. I, along with others, feel like this forum is completely out of control. It has gotten so toxic that a user has resorted to attacking underage children with highly disgusting and offensive comments. There were multiple calls not to politicize a recent shooting in America involving a Congressman and several others for at least 24 hours and people decided to politicize it anyway. This is serious. It should not be this hard to remain civil, especially when it comes to tragedies. I admit, even I have gotten in heated discussions on here and have said stupid things, but I have realized that constant name calling and other childish behavior does not help anything. Beyond that, the point of debating about politics is to not only establish your position on different topics, but to defend your position and explain why you believe the opposing position is wrong. Name calling does not accomplish that point. Deflecting does not accomplish that point. We need a reset on here and I don't know if that requires more rules or what, but something needs to change because this is ridiculous. There's a reason why the most recent forum posts were removed from this site's homepage, because toxicity level of this politics thread was offending people coming to the site.
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 03:35:28 am »

I agree. I think if someone can't take it they shouldn't dish it out. The liberals and the conservatives on this site are both out of control, one is not better than the other and there are no good guys.
I mean, to be honest, even your banner is asking for conflict since some might either take you as advocating for Trump grabbing genitals or that you are attacking Trump supporters.
I agree with your sentiments for this post, but civility has to start somewhere and maybe people like us should start by not being the ones to post offensive topics or use flame bait banners?
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 04:11:49 am »

I agree. I think if someone can't take it they shouldn't dish it out. The liberals and the conservatives on this site are both out of control, one is not better than the other and there are no good guys.
I mean, to be honest, even your banner is asking for conflict since some might either take you as advocating for Trump grabbing genitals or that you are attacking Trump supporters.
I agree with your sentiments for this post, but civility has to start somewhere and maybe people like us should start by not being the ones to post offensive topics or use flame bait banners?

Fair enough, I will remove my signature pic and replace it with something else tonight to show I am serious about making a turning point in this forum. However, I have a feeling it nor this poll will create any change. I'm truly starting to believe this forum is past the toxic point of no return.
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 05:33:03 am »

I will just say that much good could be accomplished by deleting threads and posts that lack any topical political content, and only seek to antagonize, belittle or insult those with differing views.

A policy to toss any thread that focuses on "tards," "turds" or "bats" would be a fine place to start.   Cheers
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 09:37:35 am »

The two choices in your poll are obviously loaded responses.  It is therefore a meaningless poll and doesn't do anything to move forward what you, ostensibly, claim you want to move forward.  

Similarly, your communist red "resist" banner betrays your true intentions.  You aren't here to have a debate; having a debate means the possibility of two sides.  When you aren't treating your opposition as equals in order to "debate", but rather as an enemy that must be "resisted", shall we say, by any means necessary, you've already ceded the debate stage and have moved on to other options. And do not even bother to say that I'm putting words in your mouth; we both know what the symbology has always entailed.  

I'm just going to stop by saying "be the change you want to see".  You call for civility, but anyone with a brain knows that it is beyond easy to be "uncivil" and intellectually dishonest without directly insulting others.  
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 10:08:11 am »

The two choices in your poll are obviously loaded responses.  It is therefore a meaningless poll and doesn't do anything to move forward what you, ostensibly, claim you want to move forward.  

Similarly, your communist red "resist" banner betrays your true intentions.  You aren't here to have a debate; having a debate means the possibility of two sides.  When you aren't treating your opposition as equals in order to "debate", but rather as an enemy that must be "resisted", shall we say, by any means necessary, you've already ceded the debate stage and have moved on to other options. And do not even bother to say that I'm putting words in your mouth; we both know what the symbology has always entailed.  

I'm just going to stop by saying "be the change you want to see".  You call for civility, but anyone with a brain knows that it is beyond easy to be "uncivil" and intellectually dishonest without directly insulting others.  

My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue. That's why I have resist in different languages. What it means for other people is up to their interpretation, which you yourself interpreted as a "communist red resist banner." That's more of a reflection on your thought than mine. It has absolutely nothing to do with "resisting my opposition." You just made a huge assumption about why I created the signature when in reality that's your own mind prejudging me. Who are you to call me a communist? Have I ever spread communist propaganda on here? Where is your evidence to back up the claim? The fact of the matter is, I have debated with other members of this forum and on multiple occasions I have actually agreed with those who often have opposite views than I have. I have gotten many thumbs down from fellow liberals because I continuously call out violence on the left that the media ignores. Who are you to say I'm not here to debate? Are you a mind reader? Are you some kind of prophet that knows all?

With respect to the poll, you either want to see more civility or you do not. I have admitted that I have been a part of the problem as well, where is that admission by others? Have I name called in recent days? Have I started 15 or more threads in one day with the same topic? Have I dropped into any threads to deflect or spam without offering my opinion and/or defending my opinion?
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 10:20:43 am »

How can we expect to bring more civility to this forum when we automatically assume the worst about each other? This prejudging has to stop because it's very counterproductive. I understand, it wasn't long ago that I would see threads started by certain members and automatically think they're just spamming or trying to get seed bonus points. However, it's something we're going to have to work together on getting rid of. Attacking each other constantly over things we "think" the other is attempting to do accomplishes nothing. No, you shouldn't engage in every single discussion unless you have the time and patience, but we should make an attempt to see where each person is coming from before spewing out prejudged thoughts we already have about each other.
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2017, 11:18:27 am »

My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue.

The image itself, the word, even the color choice are both associated with Antifa and Communism.  

Look up  "resist" on google images. These images are similar, and they are all associated with far-left, often violent rhetoric.

So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.  

Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that all of these choices may have been unintentional and/or subconscious.  But if you're going to continue insisting that simply pointing out these obvious associations is me "just making a huge assumption" about you, and not simply pointing out clear associations; if you're going to continue trying to gaslight me into thinking like I'm trying to pull some armchair psychoanalyst crap here;  

Then I'm going to have to tell you to fuck right off with your intellectually dishonest uncivil horseshit.  

But of course, I don't want to do that, I DO want things to be more civil around here.  

We can start here.  Whether intentional or not, your banner conveys far left extremism that is not AT ALL conducive to civil dialogue between people of opposing views.  
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2017, 01:54:28 pm »

I will just say that much good could be accomplished by deleting threads and posts that lack any topical political content, and only seek to antagonize, belittle or insult those with differing views.

A policy to toss any thread that focuses on "tards," "turds" or "bats" would be a fine place to start.   Cheers

The problem with that idea is that almost all of the threads that lack any topical political content and contain false statements and are spam are created by the "tards", "turds", and "bats".  In other words.. you.
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 02:06:40 pm »

Please take the time to respond to this poll. I, along with others, feel like this forum is completely out of control. It has gotten so toxic that a user has resorted to attacking underage children with highly disgusting and offensive comments. There were multiple calls not to politicize a recent shooting in America involving a Congressman and several others for at least 24 hours and people decided to politicize it anyway. This is serious. It should not be this hard to remain civil, especially when it comes to tragedies. I admit, even I have gotten in heated discussions on here and have said stupid things, but I have realized that constant name calling and other childish behavior does not help anything. Beyond that, the point of debating about politics is to not only establish your position on different topics, but to defend your position and explain why you believe the opposing position is wrong. Name calling does not accomplish that point. Deflecting does not accomplish that point. We need a reset on here and I don't know if that requires more rules or what, but something needs to change because this is ridiculous. There's a reason why the most recent forum posts were removed from this site's homepage, because toxicity level of this politics thread was offending people coming to the site.


Your poll is an excellent example of how polls can be so biased and misleading. 

You offered two choices - with interpretations attacked to them. 

A.   Yes, I believe the name calling and spamming is out of control
B.   No, being uncivil is the only way I can get my point across

I would tend to say "A", however, I don't think it is out of control.  The people doing it are the moonbats, and they just make fools of themselves doing it.  The moonbats have called Trump everything imaginable with little or no facts to back it up, threaten his life, threaten his family, scare his 10 year old boy with a completely realistic image of his father's severed head, called the boy autistic, called for Trump's impeachment, etc.  If being called a moonbat to put a label on those lunatics posting that garbage offends them..  Boo hoo!   I'll send you a box of Kleenex.   I would suggest that these people go plant their turnip in a mine field.

"B" is what the moonbats should select, but none of them will - because they are spineless slugs.

The basic issue is.. the Cretans do not like to be called out and identified.  They would prefer to live in a cave.. attack anonymously.. and never be held accountable for their nasty attacks.
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 02:15:55 pm »

My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue.

The image itself, the word, even the color choice are both associated with Antifa and Communism.  

Look up  "resist" on google images. These images are similar, and they are all associated with far-left, often violent rhetoric.

So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.  

Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that all of these choices may have been unintentional and/or subconscious.  But if you're going to continue insisting that simply pointing out these obvious associations is me "just making a huge assumption" about you, and not simply pointing out clear associations; if you're going to continue trying to gaslight me into thinking like I'm trying to pull some armchair psychoanalyst crap here;  

Then I'm going to have to tell you to fuck right off with your intellectually dishonest uncivil horseshit.  

But of course, I don't want to do that, I DO want things to be more civil around here.  

We can start here.  Whether intentional or not, your banner conveys far left extremism that is not AT ALL conducive to civil dialogue between people of opposing views.  


I have one thing to add to your comment. 
It's not so much a dialogue between people of opposing views.   It's a battle between people who make things up, twist facts, omit facts, ignore facts, and have a bone-deep desire to harm President Trump and undermine anything he does, no matter what he does. 
I would suggest these people go play on Facebook, where that kind of behavior is rewarded.  Facebook is extremely left wing - and probably the worlds largest data mining operation.  They have become the "NSA" that is not governed by anybody, and operates outside of any legal jurisdiction.  At the moment, Facebook has gotten away with doing anything they want.  Very few people know this, but tracking cookies in your computer are sent to websites you visit.  It is illegal for websites to archive those cookies linked to your accounts and ip address...  EXCEPT with a very few exceptions.. including FACEBOOK.   That bozo Zuckerberg didn't get $45 billion in his pocket by selling soap or appliances or digging ditches.  He got it from having a monopoly on the personal information of it's subscribers, and selling it to anybody who pays for it.   I would LOVE to see someone ask Fuckerberg how he made all that money.. what is being sold.. who is paying it? 
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2017, 07:26:22 pm »

My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue.

The image itself, the word, even the color choice are both associated with Antifa and Communism.  

Look up  "resist" on google images. These images are similar, and they are all associated with far-left, often violent rhetoric.

So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.  

Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that all of these choices may have been unintentional and/or subconscious.  But if you're going to continue insisting that simply pointing out these obvious associations is me "just making a huge assumption" about you, and not simply pointing out clear associations; if you're going to continue trying to gaslight me into thinking like I'm trying to pull some armchair psychoanalyst crap here;  

Then I'm going to have to tell you to fuck right off with your intellectually dishonest uncivil horseshit.  

But of course, I don't want to do that, I DO want things to be more civil around here.  

We can start here.  Whether intentional or not, your banner conveys far left extremism that is not AT ALL conducive to civil dialogue between people of opposing views.  


I am not changing my signature banner because that's not why I made it. If you feel that way, then that's on YOU. I have never said anything in support of Antifa or the far left; therefore, I do no support them. I have been VERY outspoken against liberals committing violence to prevent free speech. VERY OUTSPOKEN. I have also called out BLM on here multiple times and have said they need to be criticized more. I have stated that social platforms like YouTube and Facebook unfairly target conservatives and remove their content no matter what the intention, yet leave up far-left things and never remove far-left extremist, even when they make threats. You have absolutely no proof that I have taken up for Antifa or the far-left or that I made my banner with them in mind. Stop making huge assumptions or you indeed are trying to bring incivility to this thread. You cannot deem something I made as far left extremism unless you have damning proof that I support far left extremism. I have freedom of expression and I created that banner to tell everyone here to resist the status quo and let's start, no matter who we are, a foundation to build on to encourage more civility. Sorry, but you don't get to tell me what something I created is or isn't.
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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2017, 07:36:20 pm »

My new signature, to me, is to promote a resistance to the staus quo and that to truly move on we must find some form of common ground and use it to start building better dialogue.

The image itself, the word, even the color choice are both associated with Antifa and Communism.  

Look up  "resist" on google images. These images are similar, and they are all associated with far-left, often violent rhetoric.

So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.  

Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that all of these choices may have been unintentional and/or subconscious.  But if you're going to continue insisting that simply pointing out these obvious associations is me "just making a huge assumption" about you, and not simply pointing out clear associations; if you're going to continue trying to gaslight me into thinking like I'm trying to pull some armchair psychoanalyst crap here;  

Then I'm going to have to tell you to fuck right off with your intellectually dishonest uncivil horseshit.  

But of course, I don't want to do that, I DO want things to be more civil around here.  

We can start here.  Whether intentional or not, your banner conveys far left extremism that is not AT ALL conducive to civil dialogue between people of opposing views.  


I am not changing my signature banner because that's not why I made it. If you feel that way, then that's on YOU. I have never said anything in support of Antifa or the far left; therefore, I do no support them. I have been VERY outspoken against liberals committing violence to prevent free speech. VERY OUTSPOKEN. I have also called out BLM on here multiple times and have said they need to be criticized more. I have stated that social platforms like YouTube and Facebook unfairly target conservatives and remove their content no matter what the intention, yet leave up far-left things and never remove far-left extremist, even when they make threats. You have absolutely no proof that I have taken up for Antifa or the far-left or that I made my banner with them in mind. Stop making huge assumptions or you indeed are trying to bring incivility to this thread. You cannot deem something I made as far left extremism unless you have damning proof that I support far left extremism. I have freedom of expression and I created that banner to tell everyone here to resist the status quo and let's start, no matter who we are, a foundation to build on to encourage more civility. Sorry, but you don't get to tell me what something I created is or isn't.

I think your banner is good.. because it clearly indicates your perspective on things.   If that's what floats your boat.. fine.
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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 07:36:42 pm »

So the language, the image, the color palette, all these three things are all associated with the violent far left.  

Also, there are many resist banners of different types and colors so it doesn't matter what colors I used, you most likely would have pulled this same stunt. Here are examples of what showed up when I clicked on your Google search link:

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/RESIST_digital_1200x1200_8.png
http://i3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/2044095010/resist_womens_light_tshirt.jpg?color=LightPink&c=false
https://resistmedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/RESIST-Logo-Large.png
https://secure3.convio.net/gpeace/images/content/pagebuilder/Banner_870x215.jpeg
https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/120724/screenshots/3261034/resist-flag.jpg
http://murverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/developers-will-resist.gif
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/691718142842818560/M4uF-40W.jpg

Are all of those only in black and red? There was actually only 4 results on the first page of black and red resist banners, and most of the fists are of the left hand and not the right. The fist in mine is a right hand fist, not left.
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 12:05:52 am »

I've updated my signature to better show what my intent was, as I explained, to resist the status quo on here so that we can start a foundation to build better dialogue. It is NOT a message to resist those who oppose me. It is NOT a message about resisting the president. It is NOT a message in support of communism, the far-left or Antifa. I am a freaking free speech loving Christian capitalist for Christ's sake  laugh Liberal is not synonymous with far-left extremism, it's just one way to define one portion of our very large and complex political spectrum.
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« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2017, 12:39:09 am »

I've updated my signature to better show what my intent was, as I explained, to resist the status quo on here so that we can start a foundation to build better dialogue. It is NOT a message to resist those who oppose me. It is NOT a message about resisting the president. It is NOT a message in support of communism, the far-left or Antifa. I am a freaking free speech loving Christian capitalist for Christ's sake  laugh Liberal is not synonymous with far-left extremism, it's just one way to define one portion of our very large and complex political spectrum.

Liberal didn't USED to be synonymous with the far-left.. but it has become that way because the looney left has dominated the media (eg:  Seth Myers, Don Lemon, Stephen Colbert, Rachel Madcow)
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« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 06:14:48 am »

While it appears that most (of the dwindling number of) posters in Politics & Debate would like to see more civility, I'm afraid that the discussion has been sidetracked by all the back and forth about one poster's choice of graphics.

I was hoping that the thread would open a discussion on HOW to actually achieve more civility.  The current, largely unmanaged and consequence-free state of affairs here is unlike any I have encountered on other gay sites (torrent or otherwise) that engage in political discourse.

Is it any wonder that so few GT members choose to participate here?


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« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2017, 06:33:31 am »

While it appears that most (of the dwindling number of) posters in Politics & Debate would like to see more civility, I'm afraid that the discussion has been sidetracked by all the back and forth about one poster's choice of graphics.

I was hoping that the thread would open a discussion on HOW to actually achieve more civility.  The current, largely unmanaged and consequence-free state of affairs here is unlike any I have encountered on other gay sites (torrent or otherwise) that engage in political discourse.

Is it any wonder that so few GT members choose to participate here?


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Yes, it's very petty to derail this thread with communist accusations and other nonsense, but we can't let that defeat the purpose of this thread. We'd all like to see less name calling and more efforts to understand and ultimately respect our different opinions. That was my main point when I said in this thread that we have to stop assuming the absolute worst about each other based off of our own personal assumptions. We won't get anywhere with baseless bickering and ludicrous assumptions.
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« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2017, 07:04:27 am »

I propose we all come to an agreement on 1) no more wild accusations on what we feel someone's intentions are until after a debate; 2) absolutely no more deflection and derailment to stop a debate, it's annoying and just plain wrong; 3) clearly state your argument and defend it without personal/childish attacks; 4) no more spamming, posting the same topic over and over again in the same day; 5) no more attributing the actions of one person to an entire population of people, no one person represents millions of people unless you're talking about an elected official representing his/her constituents; and 6) address one another by our usernames and no more referring to each other with childish names like cuckservative or moonbat. These are just a few of my suggestions and I hope others will post their own suggestions.
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2017, 07:48:42 am »

I propose we all come to an agreement on ...

rc, I agree with virtually all your points, but at the same time, I'm certain that a minority of our posters would never, ever voluntarily agree to such improved behavior.

This is why forums have administrators and moderators, whose role is to maintain order; and, when necessary, warn and then ban posters who repeatedly violate good conduct via their rudeness, name calling, etc.  You need look no further than earlier in this thread to find an example.

There's an abject lack of that needed enforcement occurring here, and as a result, this Politics & Debate board largely fails in its purpose.






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