Explain this to me about Obamacare / Trumpcare.. I honestly don't know
Hello November 22, 2017, 11:07:44 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
 
   Home   Help Arcade Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Explain this to me about Obamacare / Trumpcare.. I honestly don't know  (Read 298 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
(Hidden)

« on: June 25, 2017, 07:13:14 pm »

I am seeing more and more lately that Trump's healthcare plan is a tax cut on the wealthy. 

How is that possible?  Isn't the entire concept that the government negotiates with the medical providers to lower costs, making health care affordable?  In Obama's plan, people were FORCED to purchase healthcare whether they wanted or needed it.  In Trump's plan, that is not required. 

The only thing I can think of that involves taxes is Medicaid.  The issue with Medicaid is that there are far too many people getting Medicaid who are not really entitled to it.  For instance.. why should someone who is NOT a service connected Veteran get free healthcare from the Veteran's administration?   I know that happens ALL the time, because my mother was a head / charge nurse in a VA hospital.  If someone complains enough, they get free health care.  I had a sister-in-law who had MS, and then attempted suicide - leaving her a quadriplegic for 15 years until she died.  She had broken her neck, leaving her head fused at a permanent 30 degree angle from her shoulders.  She got million$ in medical treatment via Medicaid, even though she was not entitled to it. 

Another thing.. Obama's forced health care plans typically didn't cover anything other than the most basic problems - such as pregnancy, abortion, broken arm, lacerations, infections, etc.   It covered virtually nothing significant in regards to vision, hearing, or dental.   
Nobody ever was, nor ever will be turned away if they have a broken arm, gaping wound, etc. 

Seems to me that the people complaining are those who want million$ in health care services but are not entitled to it. 

I'd like to see some examples of who is complaining about Trump's healthcare plan being a "tax cut" for the wealthy, and just how that plan amounts to a tax cut. 

I also have some news for people who say "well so-and-so country has free healthcare for everybody!"   Uh.. no they don't.  countries like that wind up putting people on waiting lists to see a doctor that are often 6 months of waiting.. and even then, if the patient is still alive, the healthcare is mediocre.  I remember when I lived in England and when I visited Norway, Wales, etc.  I never saw so many people with horrifying scars on their faces, amputated limbs, missing eyes, horrible teeth, etc.   In most cases, you get what you pay for.. and if you didn't pay for it.. you are likely to wind up looking like you just walked out of a horror movie.   When the healthcare is "free" it's nothing fancy.  Save a leg or tooth or eye or amputate, excise it?  Hmm.. I would prefer to save it. 

Personally, I don't like the idea of subsidizing someone else's health care when that other person smokes 2 packs of cigarettes a day, is an alcoholic, or drug abuser. 
Logged
1x Thumb Down


(Hidden)

« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2017, 07:27:47 pm »

Isn't the entire concept that the government negotiates with the medical providers to lower costs, making health care affordable?



No.  That's not at all what ObamaCare is nor was it ever intended to be that way.  What are you talking about?

Why would the government need to negotiate with medical providers?  That is the role of the insurers.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2017, 07:31:09 pm »



 I had a sister-in-law who had MS, and then attempted suicide - leaving her a quadriplegic for 15 years until she died.  She had broken her neck, leaving her head fused at a permanent 30 degree angle from her shoulders.  She got million$ in medical treatment via Medicaid, even though she was not entitled to it. 

So you don't think that your family member who is a quadriplegic deserves to have healthcare?  Do you believe she should have to work for it?  Maybe she can be a coal miner!
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2017, 07:38:18 pm »

 
Nobody ever was, nor ever will be turned away if they have a broken arm, gaping wound, etc. 

Now you sound like one of those nasty socialists.  You're right that they won't be turned away.  So who pays for it?  Those bills get stuck on the taxpayers and those of us with insurance.  ObamaCare ensured that everybody paid something even if it was just a fine.  EVERYONE is going to need healthcare at some point in their lives.

The Republican plan will set us back decades and we will go back to the system where people go to the ER and never pay the bill.  The ER's will be clogged with patients and hospitals will be forced to close their doors, especially the ones who are already struggling in rural areas.

The country will go into another recession as 700,000 people will lose their jobs.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2017, 07:42:16 pm »


Personally, I don't like the idea of subsidizing someone else's health care when that other person smokes 2 packs of cigarettes a day, is an alcoholic, or drug abuser. 

Oh then you want single payer.  If you have insurance then you are already subsidizing the healthcare of a person who smokes 2 packs a day, is an alcoholic and is a drug abuser.

The difference is that little Johnny CEO is taking a big cut off the top of that premium and is providing no value to the healthcare system.  A single payer system would be much cheaper and this is proven by almost every other country.  No other country does it our way.......and they all do it much cheaper than us.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2017, 07:46:24 pm »





Seems to me that the people complaining are those who want million$ in health care services but are not entitled to it.  



So who is entitled to that?  Just the ones who pay millions for it?

I work with seniors who are in nursing homes.  It cost well over $100K per year.  Granny doesn't deserve to live her final days in a nursing home with people to care for her?

Gay people are going to be especially vulnerable to this as they age.  30 years ago gay people didn't get old. They died of AIDS first.  Now for the first time in our history we have a group of gay people who are reaching retirement age and will soon need nursing home care.  These folks are going to cost even more than a traditional nursing home patient because they don't have children.  Most straight people have a period of time where family cares for them before they go to the nursing home.  Gay people are going to go straight to the nursing home.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 07:51:42 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2017, 07:51:00 pm »

The U.S. could reduce its defense budget and stop fighting endless wars and it would be able to provide universal healthcare to all its citizens. Isn't that putting America first?
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2017, 07:54:38 pm »

The U.S. could reduce its defense budget and stop fighting endless wars and it would be able to provide universal healthcare to all its citizens. Isn't that putting America first?

They could also take that money to be spent on the wall and spend it on American citizens instead.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2017, 09:04:34 pm »

Trumpcare repeals current direct healthcare taxes on the wealthy, as well as giving tax cuts to health insurance companioes. pharmaceutical companies and medical device manufacturers.  The total amount of the cuts about equals the cuts to Medicaid funding.  For that reason, it has been called a massive transfer of money from the poor to the rich.  A reverse Robin Hood scenario.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2017, 09:38:37 pm »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kellyanne-conway-defends-medicaid-cuts-says-adults-can-always-find-jobs_us_594fce98e4b05c37bb770cb7

Kellyanne Conway said today that "adults can always find jobs."

Since Trump claims that unemployment has dropped something like 60% since he has taken office how is it possible that so many people are still on Medicaid?  Could it be that while they can find jobs they still can't afford healthcare because people like that newly elected congresswoman from Georgia do not believe that employers should have to pay a living wage?  Trump math is so confusing.  I need to see if I can find some Trump University text books on Ebay or something.....
Logged
1x Grin 1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2017, 10:39:51 pm »

I haven't fully researched the health care issue, so the following questions are not rhetorical, for Pucci etc. 

If the ACA was so great, why did insurance premiums keep going up year over year under Obama?

http://i.imgur.com/SLwlaIQ.png
Explain this to me about Obamacare / Trumpcare.. I honestly don't know



Not only that, but the U.S. spends way more on health care than any other country.  

http://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0006_health-care-oecd-full.gif
Explain this to me about Obamacare / Trumpcare.. I honestly don't know


Under Obama, that didn't change.  Isn't reform necessary?  
Logged
1x Standard


(Hidden)

« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2017, 10:51:45 pm »

I haven't fully researched the health care issue, so the following questions are not rhetorical, for Pucci etc. 

If the ACA was so great, why did insurance premiums keep going up year over year under Obama?

<Quoted Image Removed>


Not only that, but the U.S. spends way more on health care than any other country.  

<Quoted Image Removed>

Under Obama, that didn't change.  Isn't reform necessary?  
I never said Obamacare was great.  I was simply trying to answer Frederick's original question about the tax cuts for the rich that are included in the new plan.  There are many aspects to Obamacare.  One was the insurance exchanges, which have been mostly a failure, the other is the Medicaid expansion, which ended up covering 20 million more poor people than before.
Healthcare costs are a complex subject. Part is due to new technology which drives tests to pay for it, one is the litigation-prone society, which forces doctors to order expensive tests to rule out rare diseases lest they be sued, one is pharmaceutical companies charging outlandish prices for new drugs so they can support the development  of more new drugs--and the cycle goes on and on.
Comprehensive healthcare reform will have to address more than providing insurance coverage.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2017, 11:20:14 pm »

I haven't fully researched the health care issue, so the following questions are not rhetorical, for Pucci etc. 

If the ACA was so great, why did insurance premiums keep going up year over year under Obama?

<Quoted Image Removed>


Not only that, but the U.S. spends way more on health care than any other country. 

<Quoted Image Removed>

Under Obama, that didn't change.  Isn't reform necessary? 

Yes but healthcare costs went up at a slower rate than they were going up before ObamaCare.  We also had more people covered.  ACA premiums went down in three states for 2017 (MA, RI and IN). This is the second time they went down in RI.

A HUGE part of the problem is that 19 Republican Governors rejected federal dollars to cover a group of people who are very sick and very expensive who would otherwise be covered under Medicaid expansion.  Those greedy Governors instead decided to punish the people in their own states and forced them to pay for this group of childless adults who are low income via higher premiums.  The cost of their care is much higher since Medicaid would have paid lower rates.  My state has covered this population since the 90's.   I used to work with this group of patients and I can tell you first hand that they are almost entirely men age 18-35 with substance abuse issues.  Those governors didn't want to help the taxpayers in their state.  They screwed them over and they made pay higher costs to pay for bunch of drug addicts because they don't like Obama.

Yet these low income Republicans will fight  tooth and nail to make sure that billionaires get to keep their money.  They call it "freedom."
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2017, 11:40:33 pm »

As for the high per capita cost of healthcare in the US versus other countries, realize the others have various forms of "socialized medicine,"and care is rationed.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


(Hidden)

« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2017, 01:10:12 am »

As for the high per capita cost of healthcare in the US versus other countries, realize the others have various forms of "socialized medicine,"and care is rationed.

Care is rationed in the US too.
Logged
1x Thumb Up


Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  

* Permissions
You can't post new topics.
You can't post replies.
You can't post attachments.
You can't modify your posts.
BBCode Enabled
Smilies Enabled
[img] Enabled
HTML Disabled

 
Jump to:  

Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
explain it Jokes & Funny Stuff priya 0 455 Last post June 03, 2014, 05:28:52 pm
by priya
explain Jokes & Funny Stuff priya 3 1185 Last post November 12, 2014, 05:42:36 am
by DilfLover1
If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly..... Jokes & Funny Stuff mufum69 2 755 Last post December 14, 2016, 07:39:51 pm
by JACK777
you don't have to explain just say yes or no Chit Chat « 1 2 » PumpingMuscl 34 3350 Last post December 20, 2016, 12:50:11 am
by qblol
Moonbats in mourning.. they are so sad.. Trumpcare will be GREAT! Politics & Debate Frederick 10 292 Last post June 30, 2017, 01:07:10 am
by aadam101