DOJ report - Ferguson PD
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« on: June 28, 2017, 11:39:47 am »

Right away, I'm smacked in the face by the crying  about the same Due Process issues that they created on every US college campus with the various "Dear Colleague" letters.   How fucking hypocritical.   

Ok, Ferguson is a poor ass town that needs to boost it's income by giving out tickets.   That's an extremely common practice all over the world.    It's not just a Ferguson issue.  You also can not blame the police for being forced into the position. 

You are required by law to have your current address on your driver's license.   So I don't see any reason to include this in the report.

Exercising your free speech resulting in arrest is very common, and again it's global. 

Any MAN sitting outside a park where kids are will be viewed as a pedo.   That is nothing new and not restricted to Ferguson or the US. 

While not a police issue, courts routinely issue warrants for non appearance.    If everyone showed up like they are supposed to, then bail wouldn't be an issue. 

Nothing about the local courts showed any bias and they engage in common practices.


Now we're getting into the juice stuff; racial bias. 

According to FBI stats, blacks commit violent crimes over 5x their rate of population. 

When you look at % of crimes version police shootings, you will see that blacks are shot half as much as their rate of crime.

Black cops are the mostly likely to shoot a suspect, with a white cop being the least likely. 

Despite making up 13% of the US population, blacks make up 43% of cop killers.   It's even a higher % if you include non fatal shooting of police.

While blacks may be the majority of "failure to comply" in Ferguson, US wide whites are the extreme vast majority of those arrest/tried/convicted for statutory rape.    This is another stat from the FBI.   When looking at under the legal age to have sex, but getting pregnant, white girls have less than half the rate of non-whites (black and hispanic).    So, clearly whites are being persecuted due solely on their race for this. 

I don't know if blacks are more likely not to comply.   

Again, are blacks less likely to allow themselves to be arrest?   Why isn't that included in the report? 

Back to courts.  While there is a racial gap, why no mention of the gender gap in the criminal system?   The gender gap is far, far larger than the racial gap. 

Community distrust.

Blacks don't trust the police and whine that police don't solve crimes in black areas.   Of course they don't, because blacks refuse to help with police investigations.    You can't have both. 

*******

I see nothing in the DOJ report that makes Ferguson PD any different or worse than any other PD in the west.
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2017, 03:05:37 pm »

What I don't understand is: when this argument plays out, and the other side says "you're not mentioning anything about poverty or how blacks are treated in society" etc. etc. People like you insist that "racism is over" "blacks have the same fair chance as everyone else." I guess because no one shouts racial slurs in public anymore? Unless you're at a tea party rally maybe.

But here's the thing. After that tirade, your biases are pretty clear. It's safe to say that in a hypothetical situation where you're in charge of hiring people, the only thing stopping you from choosing a white person over a black one every time is what you'd call "government interference" or "SJW liberal cuckoldery."

Something else that's disproportionate in our country is the abundance of power and influence white people have. And please, as far as this post goes, understand I'm not stating this as a moral right or wrong that needs to be fixed, just an objective premise. That said, many of these people hold the same biases you have, despite the fact that they aren't openly petitioning for separate water fountains. They make decisions all the time that affect who gets what job, who is eligible for loans, and who is affected by what law. So for you to state the color of their skin as the only relevant piece of information here is a complete joke.
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2017, 03:11:19 pm »

You are purposely forgetting that the PD was targeting people of color disporportianately for ticketing.
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2017, 07:15:06 pm »

Don't agree with the blacks are oppressed narrative, that makes you a white supremacist.        Crazy? 

No debating what I said, just call me a racist.   Does anyone really expect civility around here?

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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2017, 07:19:24 pm »

You are purposely forgetting that the PD was targeting people of color disporportianately for ticketing.

As I pointed out in my OP. according to FBI stats, whites are nearly all the people who are charged with statutory rape, despite having the 2nd lowest rate of underage pregnancy.   

Where are your screams of "oppression of white people"?   

Nobody gives a fuck when whites are targeted. 
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 10:13:58 pm »

Don't agree with the blacks are oppressed narrative, that makes you a white supremacist.        Crazy? 

No debating what I said, just call me a racist.   Does anyone really expect civility around here?


Show me where I called you a white supremacist. Or a racist. The biggest leap I made was saying you're possibly the type of person who'd try to argue that racism doesn't exist anymore.
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2017, 11:54:32 pm »

Black people have had problems with the police for many periods of time for many different reasons. You cannot minimize those problems the way you're trying to do raphjd, it's much too complicated of an issue. We do not trust the police because of the many times the police have wrongfully treated us historically and presently. Many, many police departments were linked to white supremacist groups and often aided murderers to lynch black people based on false convictions as recent as 60 years ago. No, that does not happen today but the problem was never really addressed and no efforts were made to restore the trust. Fast-forward to today, you have some black people committing heinous crimes against other black people because they do not view black life as important enough to preserve and protect. They know if they commit a crime against another black person, it will not be taken as seriously as a crime against a white person. Do you want to guess why that is?

Another thing is you're acting like this is a strict black and white issue when in reality, it's not. Are you not aware of black police officers treating black people unfairly? The Atlanta police departments have many, many black officers and black people in leadership, yet the same problems are present there. This is an institutional problem. This is a self-worth problem. Once again, do you want to have the discussion of why some black people do not view other black lives as important enough or worthy of even living?

Lastly, no one in this discussion is calling you a racist. We're pointing out how biased and flawed your arguments are. When I called your statements racist in other threads, it was usually because you were using one black person to say they spoke for all black people which is a racist thing to do. If you can say one black person speaks for me, then why can't I say David Duke speaks for you? David Duke does NOT speak for you so no black person---except myself---speaks for me. Simple as that.
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2017, 11:55:18 pm »

You are purposely forgetting that the PD was targeting people of color disporportianately for ticketing.

As I pointed out in my OP. according to FBI stats, whites are nearly all the people who are charged with statutory rape, despite having the 2nd lowest rate of underage pregnancy.   

Where are your screams of "oppression of white people"?   

Nobody gives a fuck when whites are targeted. 

What FBI stats?  According to this report from the FBI in 2012, the racial distribution for arrests for statutory rape was very similar to that of the general population:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2012/table-pdfs/sex-offense-offenders-statutory-rape-sex-and-race-by-age-2012/view

Do you any other references?

And no one called you a racist.  Actually, I do not think you are a racist, you are perhaps something more dangerous--a racism denier.  You refuse to admit that racism exists and you see claims about it as unfair attack on whites.  Your defense of Ferguson as no more different than . any other city is more of an indictment of American society as a whole.


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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 12:04:15 am »

You are purposely forgetting that the PD was targeting people of color disporportianately for ticketing.

As I pointed out in my OP. according to FBI stats, whites are nearly all the people who are charged with statutory rape, despite having the 2nd lowest rate of underage pregnancy.  

Where are your screams of "oppression of white people"?  

Nobody gives a fuck when whites are targeted.  

What FBI stats?  According to this report from the FBI in 2012, the racial distribution for arrests for statutory rape was very similar to that of the general population:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2012/table-pdfs/sex-offense-offenders-statutory-rape-sex-and-race-by-age-2012/view

Do you any other references?

And no one called you a racist.  Actually, I do not think you are a racist, you are perhaps something more dangerous--a racism denier.  You refuse to admit that racism exists and you see claims about it as unfair attack on whites.  Your defense of Ferguson as no more different than . any other city is more of an indictment of American society as a whole.




Thank you for saying this, pppucci. Being a racism denier is extremely dangerous because while they do not realize it's harm, they are backing up the people who are racists. We're not going to be able to have a discussion on this without some serious self-reflection. Raphjd, these are deep, complex topics that cannot be summed up in "well I'm not 'this' because you're 'this'." If you're not willing to truly debate this but instead to spew out inaccurate statements then it would appear you're only trying to flame us with this thread.
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 09:36:37 am »

I have never denied that racism exists.    HOWEVER, I will not tolerate that dictionary fallacy bullshit of SJWs changing definitions to suit their needs.   All races are guilty of racism, even toward whites.   Cynthia  G, Gazi Kodo (black hitler, as he was named by others) one of the several self proclaimed Black Hitlers and countless others are guilty of anti white racism.  

****

I haven't seen that chart for statutory rape, I saw the big chart that included many crimes.    Oddly, that chart still makes my point.  

Asians have the lowest underage birth rate, then whites.   Whites are less than half of the next lowest group.   Blacks have the highest underage birth rate.   Arrest/charged rates don't match birth rates.  

****

Quote
Lastly, no one in this discussion is calling you a racist. We're pointing out how biased and flawed your arguments are. When I called your statements racist in other threads, it was usually because you were using one black person to say they spoke for all black people which is a racist thing to do. If you can say one black person speaks for me, then why can't I say David Duke speaks for you? David Duke does NOT speak for you so no black person---except myself---speaks for me. Simple as that.  

You called me a racist for pointing out 2 proven lies told by Rep John Lewis.   You then went on to claim that I hate the fact that blacks can vote and had civil rights.    I never mentioned race, simply that JL lied twice.    

BUT, this isn't really the topic.   We're talking about the report.  

****

Of course white people have the majority of the power in the US, we are the majority of people.   I guess you'd be surprised to find out that Japanese people have the majority of the power in Japan or that Zimbabweans have the majority of the power in Zimbabwe.  Heck, muslims have the majority of power in Saudi and jews have the majority of power in Israel.

****

As a white man, why am I forced to hire minorities, but no one is forced to hire me?     So of course it's government interference.

That is privilege, but not privilege for the white man.  

*****

How is using ticketing/fines anti black?    

You need to prove that blacks are specifically targeted for this to have a point.  

If anything, it's classist/incomist.  

I pay the same amount for double parking as Elton John, Michael Jordan, Oprah, etc, etc, etc, etc.  

Even in the UK where they claimed to have fixed this, I still pay the same as them because I make over £43,250 a year (start of 40% tax bracket).   Somehow that makes me a multi-millionaire/billionaire.

****

You can't bitch about the police not caring about crime in black areas when you refuse to cooperate with the police and endlessly demonize them.  

You can't be responsible for 43% of cop killings (probably much higher when you look at all injuries to cops with a weapon), then cry that they are leery of you.   Hell, black cops are the most likely to shoot with white cops being the least likely to shoot.  

Of course BLM always claim it's a racist white cop that did the shooting, even when it's not.  

****

On YouTube, there's a black woman screaming that whites and cops need to be killed.   Fast forward a couple of months and she's screaming that the racist police aren't doing anything to find her son's killer.   She's silent on her own community refusing to cooperate with the police to catch the killer(s), but she's more than willing to blame the police and white people.    

Tommy Sotomayor did a good video on this.  

Terence Williams did a great video on how blacks hate the police, but they are the first ones they call when they have problems.   Once the police arrive, blacks refuse to cooperate and get hostile toward the police because they didn't prevent the crime.
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 10:41:28 am »

Raphjd
Quote
I haven't seen that chart for statutory rape, I saw the big chart that included many crimes.    Oddly, that chart still makes my point. 

Asians have the lowest underage birth rate, then whites.   Whites are less than half of the next lowest group.   Blacks have the highest underage birth rate.   Arrest/charged rates don't match birth rates.


I don't see how comparing rates for statutory rates and underage pregnancy proves that whites are prosecuted more than blacks for this crime.  You assume that all underage sex is unprotected or that the rates of contraception are equal in both groups. Acutually at least one study of underage girls in NYC showed that the pregnancy risk for white girls was 5.4% vs 9.0% in black girls. Taking that into account will eliminate much of the discrepancy you cite.  Furthermore, police do not patrol the streets looking for statutory rape victims.  This is a self-reported crime and cultural difference may account for some of the difference as well. I suggest you point to another crime category to make your case.

EDITED for readability - raphjd
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 06:23:01 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 12:03:06 pm »

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I don't see how comparing rates for statutory rates and underage pregnancy proves that whites are prosecuted more than blacks for this crime.

A pregnant 12yo is virtually always a case of statutory rape.   There are extremely few reasons for it not to be.   

Just using pregnant jail bait figures vs those arrested/charged, it's clear that a higher % of whites are arrested/charged compared to blacks.   Of course it won't change and no one will make it "mandatory reporting" like with child abuse because the black community will scream RACISM.

Of course blacks won't self report because the girl can marry the government and go on welfare.  Then the race baiters will scream that that's another "woman of color" kept down by the white man.

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Acutuall at least one study of underage girls in NYC showed that the pregnancy risk for white girls was 5.4% vs 9.0% in black girls.

What are you trying to show here?   It's pretty much what I said.   I was talking about national figures and you pointed to NYC.   



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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 06:27:25 pm »

Raphjd is trying to use pregnancy figures as a measure of incidence of underage sex and therefore statutory rape.  I challenge that assumption because of varying rates of contraception in racial groups.  You should either cite a study of actual rates of underage sex or find another crime to make your point.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 11:34:18 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 09:45:05 pm »

We can simply use the rate of underage pregnancy vs arrests/charged.   It's not completely accurate, but it is a very good indicator.

What more proof do you need that someone fucked a 12yo girl than her being pregnant. 

You even provided stats from NYC that showed that white girls have nearly have the rate of black girls.     I said the national figures had a bigger difference between the 2.   

https://thenationalcampaign.org/data/compare/1687/16096

That site is pretty close to what I said about national figures.

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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 10:31:47 pm »

Tommy Sotomayor did a good video on this.  

Terence Williams did a great video on how blacks hate the police, but they are the first ones they call when they have problems.   Once the police arrive, blacks refuse to cooperate and get hostile toward the police because they didn't prevent the crime.

Exactly, Tommy Sotomayor and Terence Williams are both black and both have different views because black people are capable of having different views of things. Contrary to your statements that one black person speaks for our entire race; we actually are capable of breaking from the hive-mind mentality on specific issues. I actually agree with some of the things Tommy Sotomayor says on YouTube. I've also seen first hand what happens when you criticize BLM on Facebook because my brother's Facebook account was disabled and still is just because he criticized BLM and he didn't even use bad language when he criticized them. He was called anti-black and people who didn't even know him reported him until Facebook disabled his account. I understand what you are saying and to some degree, I do agree with you.

However, there are deep reasons why we have such a bad relationship with the police and until those reasons are properly addressed and corrected, the relationship will continue to be bad. The police can start by not murdering people who do call them for help. They can also start by protecting those who do wish to help them serve the community. There needs to be more transparency. There needs to be more accountability for wrongdoing. If you're a police officer and you enter a house looking for a drug dealer or someone with an outstanding warrant and just begin shooting and murder a little innocent child in her bedroom, you need to go to prison. Unless that child was awake and threatening to shoot you with a gun, you have no reasons for firing into her bedroom. That happened to Aiyana Stanley-Jones. Guess what? No one would convict the officer who murdered her.
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2017, 11:47:01 pm »

We can simply use the rate of underage pregnancy vs arrests/charged.   It's not completely accurate, but it is a very good indicator.

What more proof do you need that someone fucked a 12yo girl than her being pregnant. 

You even provided stats from NYC that showed that white girls have nearly have the rate of black girls.     I said the national figures had a bigger difference between the 2.   

https://thenationalcampaign.org/data/compare/1687/16096

That site is pretty close to what I said about national figures.


Yes, a pregnant 12 year old has been fucked, but the converse is not true.  A 12 year old can be fucked and NOT pregnant.  Therefore the pregnancy rate cannot be used as a surrogate for the fucking rate. Let's say, for argument's sake, that all underage white girls use contraception.  There would still be arrests for statutory rape among whites. but arrests per pregnancy would be astronomically high.  That would not mean, however that whites are being unfairly targeted.
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 06:35:31 am »

Quote
Yes, a pregnant 12 year old has been fucked, but the converse is not true.  A 12 year old can be fucked and NOT pregnant.  Therefore the pregnancy rate cannot be used as a surrogate for the fucking rate. Let's say, for argument's sake, that all underage white girls use contraception.  There would still be arrests for statutory rape among whites. but arrests per pregnancy would be astronomically high.  That would not mean, however that whites are being unfairly targeted. 

You ABSOLUTELY know that a pregnant 12yo got fucked by a human, this ain't the bible or Springer.

Why are there fewer arrests/charges than pregnant 12yo, especially in the hispanic and black communities? 

As I previously said, if we made it "mandatory reporting" like with child abuse, those 2 communities would be having a cow saying we're targeting them.
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« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 06:43:29 am »

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Contrary to your statements that one black person speaks for our entire race; we actually are capable of breaking from the hive-mind mentality on specific issues.   

That's not what I said though. 

I said that every time Maxine Waters opens her mouth, she makes black look bad.    She claims that blacks are too stupid to speak English and too weak willed not to do drugs.   

It was black people (Larry Elder was one of 'em) on the right that said she was an idiot.  Blacks on the left ate it up as justification for blacks doing so badly in schools.
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« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 07:11:31 am »

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Yes, a pregnant 12 year old has been fucked, but the converse is not true.  A 12 year old can be fucked and NOT pregnant.  Therefore the pregnancy rate cannot be used as a surrogate for the fucking rate. Let's say, for argument's sake, that all underage white girls use contraception.  There would still be arrests for statutory rape among whites. but arrests per pregnancy would be astronomically high.  That would not mean, however that whites are being unfairly targeted. 

You ABSOLUTELY know that a pregnant 12yo got fucked by a human, this ain't the bible or Springer.

Why are there fewer arrests/charges than pregnant 12yo, especially in the hispanic and black communities? 

As I previously said, if we made it "mandatory reporting" like with child abuse, those 2 communities would be having a cow saying we're targeting them.

The simple answer is that only a small fraction of statutory rape cases are reported. and I suspect white blacks and Hispanics would all have cows if we insisted on mandatory reporting.  In 2015, there were 250,000 underage pregnancies and only about 1600 cases of statutory rape reported. I am still waiting to see your proof that whites are prosecuted more than blacks.   I will  point you to this:  http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0886260514555132 on same-sex and race disparities in statutory rape
The last sentence of the abstract says: " Support for race/ethnicity-based arrest disparities was limited and mixed."

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« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 07:21:47 am »


US wide whites are the extreme vast majority of those arrest/tried/convicted for statutory rape.    This is another stat from the FBI.   When looking at under the legal age to have sex, but getting pregnant, white girls have less than half the rate of non-whites (black and hispanic).    So, clearly whites are being persecuted due solely on their race for this. 
This is from your original post and I am still waiting for proof.  The FBI data that I found showed was from 2012.  It showed a total of 1,695 arrests for non-forcible sex crimes.  Of those, 1,301 were white or 77%; 327 were black or 19%, and the remainder was split between American indians, Asians and unknown.  Hispanics were not specifically separated in these statistics, but the percentages are very close to the percentages in the general population.  Show me another study if I'm wrong.

Ref:  https://ucr.fbi.gov/nibrs/2012/table-pdfs/arrestees-race-by-arrest-offense-category-2012
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