Hamburg is a warzone thanks to far-left anarchists
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Author Topic: Hamburg is a warzone thanks to far-left anarchists  (Read 101 times)
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« on: July 08, 2017, 08:55:18 pm »

Video: https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b5d_1499422515

Smoke billowing far across the city.  Every other car on the street is on fire. 
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 08:57:56 pm »

Anarchism isn't a left only thing. It is actually found on both the left and the right. So to claim that they are all far-left, without any evidence, is disingenuous.
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 10:12:24 pm »

Anarchism isn't a left only thing. It is actually found on both the left and the right. So to claim that they are all far-left, without any evidence, is disingenuous.

My intention wasn't to be disingenuous.  I thought because it was so well documented, it wouldn't need additional confirmation.  Thank you for correcting that misconception.  

Here is a reuters article on the riots.  

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For the 1,000 hard-left militants who wreaked havoc on the streets of Hamburg, German Chancellor Angela Merkel could not have chosen a better location to hold the G20 summit.

Here is a BBC article on the riots.  

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So who are the anarchists?
Far-left extremism has become a feature of protests in recent years, and Hamburg - known for its squatter scene, which developed in the 1980s - is not stranger to violent protests.

But the city was not just on alert for extremists within its bounds. Police were expecting them to be joined by left-wing extremists from other German cities, including Berlin and Rostock, with others coming from further afield.

I am curious if you still think there is no issue with left-wing violence and extremism?  


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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 10:16:19 pm »

Anarchism isn't a left only thing. It is actually found on both the left and the right. So to claim that they are all far-left, without any evidence, is disingenuous.

My intention wasn't to be disingenuous.  I thought because it was so well documented, it wouldn't need additional confirmation.  Thank you for correcting that misconception.  

Here is a reuters article on the riots.  

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For the 1,000 hard-left militants who wreaked havoc on the streets of Hamburg, German Chancellor Angela Merkel could not have chosen a better location to hold the G20 summit.

BBC article.  

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So who are the anarchists?
Far-left extremism has become a feature of protests in recent years, and Hamburg - known for its squatter scene, which developed in the 1980s - is not stranger to violent protests.

But the city was not just on alert for extremists within its bounds. Police were expecting them to be joined by left-wing extremists from other German cities, including Berlin and Rostock, with others coming from further afield.

I am curious if you still think there is no issue with left-wing violence and extremism?  




When have I implied that extremism is acceptable? I have said that it is a problem on both the left and the right. The radical left causes the radical right to come out and vice-versa.
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 10:30:48 pm »

When have I implied that extremism is acceptable? I have said that it is a problem on both the left and the right. The radical left causes the radical right to come out and vice-versa.

I have no issue with the fact that there are far-left and far-right groups.  Finding their mere existence to be problematic is a form of extremism as well -- centrist extremism if you will.  The problem I am talking about is not the existence of these groups, but the culture of pro-violence and the disproportionate violence committed by left-wing extremists and often encouraged by mainstream liberals. 
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2017, 02:47:18 am »

The problem I am talking about is not the existence of these groups, but the culture of pro-violence and the disproportionate violence committed by left-wing extremists and often encouraged by mainstream liberals. 
You make assumptions that are not justified.  When have main-stream liberals encouraged violence?  How is leftist violence disproportionate when compared to the right?  While recent leftist protests have gotten ugly, very few, if any have resulted in deaths.  Yet right-wing domestic terrorism is on the rise.

New America's tally shows 21 instances of right-wing terrorist attacks causing 53 fatalities since September 11, 2001. These were:

The 2017 Portland train attack (2 killed),
The 2017 stabbing of Timothy Caughman in New York City (1 killed),
The 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed),
The 2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed),
The 2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (5 killed),
The 2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting in Kansas (3 killed),
The 2014 Pennsylvania State Police barracks attack in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby (4 killed),
A 2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed),
The 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed),
The 2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed),
A murder in 2010 in Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed),
The 2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed),
The 2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed),
The 2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed),
The 2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed),
The 2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed),
The 2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed),

Newsweek published and article in June on the matter:  http://www.newsweek.com/homegrown-terrorism-rising-threat-right-wing-extremism-619724

Massive civil unrest and "violence" (destroying property is far different than destroying life) is more a reaction to the party in power.  That is why you see what you do in Germany, and to an extent, what is happening in the USA.  The the right is in power, the left will protest, and when emotions run high, there will be violence.  When the roles are reversed, the right protests and violence ensues.

The "rise of leftist violence" is a conservative media talking point that is designed to discredit the entire liberal movement and offer exculpatory justifications for their own past offenses.
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 03:29:30 am »

Pucci, liberals are far, far more violent than conservatives ever could be in the U.S.   The numbers are not on your side.  

No, the numbers aren't even close. The number of attacks by leftists far FAR outweigh the attacks by the right.  The large majority of gun violence is committed by democrats:

Source: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/robert-farago/firearms-related-homicides-democratic-vs-republican-affiliation/
Source 2: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/01/ted-cruz/are-overwhelming-majority-violent-criminals-democr/

And yes I see that Politifact rating, as it is biased. The thing is, even though they try to qualify the issue, they still have to report the numbers.  Here are the numbers from the politifact article:

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For instance, in New York, about one-third of felons released from prison registered to vote after their release. Of those, about 62 percent registered as Democrats and 9 percent registered as Republicans, with 26 percent registering as independents or with other parties.

In North Carolina, about a quarter of those who were released registered after their release. Of those, 52 percent registered as Democrats, 19 percent as Republicans and 22 percent as independents or with other parties.

And in New Mexico, 41 percent of those who were released registered to vote. Of those, 55 percent registered as Democrats, 10 percent as Republicans and 18 percent as independents or with other parties.

These things are true.  Not mostly true, or mostly false, just true.  

You need to stop denying that there is an issue with left wing violence.  The numbers and statistics are not on your side.  The anecdotes are not on your side.  The video documentation is not on your side.  

Here is a video of ultra-left wing black bloc rioters in Hamburg smashing windows and setting the city on fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sRjonStJv0

Will you continue to argue there is no problem specifically with left wing violence?

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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2017, 03:36:38 am »

I don't know about the tendency of Hamburg leftists to be violent, strangeloop, can you share any info on that? Since it is the subject of your primary post.
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2017, 03:46:42 am »

I don't want to go to imaginary left and right divisions.... But - G20 causes large scale suffering to millions of people and causes huge environmental destruction to our planet.

Globalization is great - but how it's done is the major issue of the demonstrations. "welcome to hell" symbolizes the suffering and destruction that G20 causes to humans and the planet.
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2017, 03:56:46 am »

I don't know about the tendency of Hamburg leftists to be violent, strangeloop, can you share any info on that? Since it is the subject of your primary post.

The tendency is informed by the evidence and documentation widely available.  I've posted several videos here, whether it's cars and windows being smashed, people being punched and called "nazi pigs" for no reason at all, or independent journalists literally being tracked as targets, assaulted and harassed.  

All of these things have evidence and documentation.  So I would say tendency of violence by anarchists in hamburg has been well proven.  


I don't want to go to imaginary left and right divisions.... But - G20 causes large scale suffering to millions of people and causes huge environmental destruction to our planet.

Globalization is great - but how it's done is the major issue of the demonstrations. "welcome to hell" symbolizes the suffering and destruction that G20 causes to humans and the planet.

What evidence do you have that "globalization is great".  How has globalization made Europe a better place in any way shape or form? 
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2017, 04:12:15 am »

What evidence do you have that "globalization is great".  How has globalization made Europe a better place in any way shape or form? 

I think the user was referring to free trade and open markets, which are part of globalization. Globalization is typically broken down into the: Free movement of people; Free movement of information; Free movement of goods and services.

Many European countries have benefited from globalization, for example Germany did after its reunification. However, there are winners and losers in globalization.

If your argument is that globalization is inherently bad and produces no benefit to people, then you would have to prove that.
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2017, 04:39:12 am »

If your argument is that globalization is inherently bad and produces no benefit to people, then you would have to prove that.

I did not argue whether globalization is bad or good.  I'm simply asking for empircal evidence that globalization "is great".  You named a few features of globalization such as free movement of people between countries.  Has this been shown at all to benefit the countries taking in immigrants in any way?  In terms of quality of life, happiness measurements, etc.  I'm an empiricist, show me the data. 
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2017, 04:41:00 am »

Pucci, liberals are far, far more violent than conservatives ever could be in the U.S.   The numbers are not on your side.  

No, the numbers aren't even close. The number of attacks by leftists far FAR outweigh the attacks by the right.  The large majority of gun violence is committed by democrats:

Source: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/robert-farago/firearms-related-homicides-democratic-vs-republican-affiliation/
Source 2: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/01/ted-cruz/are-overwhelming-majority-violent-criminals-democr/

And yes I see that Politifact rating, as it is biased. The thing is, even though they try to qualify the issue, they still have to report the numbers.  Here are the numbers from the politifact article:

Quote
For instance, in New York, about one-third of felons released from prison registered to vote after their release. Of those, about 62 percent registered as Democrats and 9 percent registered as Republicans, with 26 percent registering as independents or with other parties.

In North Carolina, about a quarter of those who were released registered after their release. Of those, 52 percent registered as Democrats, 19 percent as Republicans and 22 percent as independents or with other parties.

And in New Mexico, 41 percent of those who were released registered to vote. Of those, 55 percent registered as Democrats, 10 percent as Republicans and 18 percent as independents or with other parties.

These things are true.  Not mostly true, or mostly false, just true.  

You need to stop denying that there is an issue with left wing violence.  The numbers and statistics are not on your side.  The anecdotes are not on your side.  The video documentation is not on your side.  

Here is a video of ultra-left wing black bloc rioters in Hamburg smashing windows and setting the city on fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sRjonStJv0

Will you continue to argue there is no problem specifically with left wing violence?
Strange loop, the two articles you cite are statistically flawed. The most important statistic is left out, which is the prevalence of political parties in the US:
From Wikipedia:
Gallup polling in 2010 that found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats (tying a 22-year low), 29% as Republicans, and 38% as independents.
So most murders are committed by independents, if we are to use the logic of the first author.  The fact that blacks commit violent crimes out of proportion to their population has little to do with their party affiliation.  That article is not even a study.  It is a methodologically flawed manipulation of statistics by a pro-gun site.
You politifact study purports to show that ex-felons vote Democratic. Even if it were true , it says nothing about politically inspired leftist violence. You might try refining your Google search.  These studies are meant to discredit those calling for gun control.
Go ahead. Google liberal violence.  You will find a lot of objectionable rhetoric, the shooting attack on the Republican baseball team (which was roundly condemned by liberal, including Bernie) and little else.  Yet Buzz Feed counted 28 incidents    of violence and racism in THE FIRST WEEK after the election. Why do you refuse to acknowledge all of these blatant incidents, including the ones I cited before?
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 06:13:24 am »

Strange loop, the two articles you cite are statistically flawed. The most important statistic is left out, which is the prevalence of political parties in the US:
From Wikipedia:
Gallup polling in 2010 that found that 31% of Americans identified as Democrats (tying a 22-year low), 29% as Republicans, and 38% as independents.

So most murders are committed by independents, if we are to use the logic of the first author.  The fact that blacks commit violent crimes out of proportion to their population has little to do with their party affiliation.  That article is not even a study.  It is a methodologically flawed manipulation of statistics by a pro-gun site.
This is why I cited both a conservative source and a liberal source.  Both sources are flawed, but post-analysis of both articles it is possible to determine the truth on the matter based on only the data, not the spin of the pundits.  The second article was indeed based on a academic study.  A 2% differential between democrats and republicans does little to distort the 30%+ delta e.g. in North Carolina recorded in the study.  Read again the quote:

Quote
In North Carolina, about a quarter of those who were released registered after their release. Of those, 52 percent registered as Democrats, 19 percent as Republicans and 22 percent as independents or with other parties.

Quote
Go ahead. Google liberal violence.  You will find a lot of objectionable rhetoric, the shooting attack on the Republican baseball team (which was roundly condemned by liberal, including Bernie) and little else.  Yet Buzz Feed counted 28 incidents  of violence and racism in THE FIRST WEEK after the election. Why do you refuse to acknowledge all of these blatant incidents, including the ones I cited before?



If all you can find is "little else" on liberal violence you are not even trying.  There is copious video documentation of violence against conservatives and not so much against liberals.  For every video you find of Trump supporters attacking liberals, I can probably find you 10 of vice versa.  There have also been a huge number of hate crime hoaxes, some of them very high profile incidents, and to ignore this effect is disingenuous.  

Meanwhile, you still cannot fake video documentation.  Unless you're willing to argue that only conservatives carry around smart phones, there should be no bias in the ability of either side to record the violence of the other.  And there is much more documentation of violence against conservatives, as I keep showing in threads like these.  

It's time to stop being ignorant of the issue of liberal violence.  



P.S.: I just went through the Buzzfeed article you mentioned, and actually ONLY TWO of those incidents contained any actual physical violence.  So you are being disingenuous even by the dubious claims of Buzz Feed and their low standards.  Think about how low you have to sink in order to be lower than Buzz Feed.  Buzz Feed is not a reputable site.  It is literally a clickbait site and doesn't even pretend to be anything else.  And yet it doesn't even support the claim you've made by citing it. 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 06:21:13 am by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 06:52:58 am »

I hate to say this but how the "western world" is exploiting rest of the planet and people - we actually don't have any rights over others to do that. As citizens we all must be equal, not just in the "first world", but the whole world. A lot of politics and programs aims to slowly but steadily move society to be coherent in every part of the globe.
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2017, 07:10:59 am »

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When have I implied that extremism is acceptable? I have said that it is a problem on both the left and the right. The radical left causes the radical right to come out and vice-versa. 

Wait, you said you didn't have to condemn the violence because you aren't the President.

Do I need to get out my mod tools and see if you were one of the 6 that downvoted RoyalCrown89 and the others who condemned the violence?   
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2017, 07:23:08 am »

How can the number of videos you find on the web possibly  tell you anything at all about the relative incidence of violence of right vs left?  Do you have a web crawler embedded in your brain that diligently scours every website on earth?  Even if you id, there would be a bias related to which videos were posted and published.  Perhaps leftist violence seems on the rise since it was virtually non-existent for the past ten years.
Your North Carolina study does nothing for your argument.  That study looked at how ex-felons registered (either democrat or Republican after they were released.  They did not distinguish between violent and non-violent felons.  They did not look at party affiliation at the time the crime was committed. Believe it or not, there are conservative democrats, and although they are a rare bird now, there are liberal republicans.  Even the authors of your beloved study did their data did not support Senator Cruz's assertion.
Try again.
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2017, 07:29:21 am »

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How can the number of videos you find on the web possibly  tell you anything at all about the relative incidence of violence of right vs left?

The internet is more than leftist media.   

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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2017, 08:19:06 am »

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How can the number of videos you find on the web possibly  tell you anything at all about the relative incidence of violence of right vs left?

The internet is more than leftist media.   


But it is not a scientific sample
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2017, 10:30:52 am »

Comparing the internet to mainstream media, you get a much more honest view of the world from the internet. 

Mainstream media has a leftist agenda. 
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