Netflix The Defenders
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« on: September 15, 2017, 01:15:52 pm »

Was just curious as to what everyone who watched the show thought. I really enjoyed it!
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 08:07:03 am »

I was reading that it had low ratings. But I found it a really good watch. It all was well done. And I also loved Iron Fist, but again, people said it was awful... I wonder why so many people didn't like either Iron Fist or The Defenders.
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 12:02:03 pm »

Was just curious as to what everyone who watched the show thought. I really enjoyed it!

OMG I hated it!  Crazy? 
 
The main problem was Ironfist. He was written terribly, the actor couldn't fight, and the actor doesn't look anything like what an Ironfist should look like. His body should look like Bruce Lee's at the very least, not an emo child's.

And the fight scenes in general. Go back and watch them, especially the boss fight at the end. They were edited together haphazardly so that it was impossible to follow the action of who was doing what. Rewatch Daredevil. THAT'S how you film a fight scene.

The best parts were Jessica Jones and Daredevil. I also liked how Daredevils two friends handled his not coming back. That was well done.

Oh, The Hand! Billed as this global superpower that strikes fear into everyone and the showrunners reduced all that build up to those five pretty much winging it alone? BS.

I loved DD, JJ, and LC but these last two sucked small warty balls.
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2017, 10:15:58 pm »

I re-watched Daredevil season 2 just before the Defenders was released, which turned out to be a grave mistake because it shined a huge fucking spotlight on just how shitty the Defenders was.  I was hoping that Daredevil would lift up the other characters, but instead he was dragged down to their level. 

-When I watched "Wonder Woman" as a child, I remember thinking how laughable it was that Wonder Woman could stop a tank (shown in the opening credits) with her bare hands, but frequently showed strain while fighting ordinary men.  Now, decades later, we have Kristen Ritter struggling against ordinary men, but able to support a freight elevator by a steel cable.   And speaking of steel cables, shouldn't that describe the muscle density of the arms of someone able to pull off that stunt?  And yet a handgun easily shot a bullet straight through Jessica's arm in the first season of her show.  DEFINE THE WOMAN'S POWER!

-Speaking of defining women's powers, what the fuck is going on with Elektra?  Does she have super strength and speed now, or was that just how it seemed to a fighter as pathetic as Danny?  And how can Elektra jump out of high windows and survive being hit by a car?  FUCKING TELL US, YOU SHITTY DAREDEVIL FOLLOW-UP!!!!!

-During the first Captain America film, the first season of Jessica Jones, and the first season of Luke Cage, we are shown shitty, slapped together versions of the costumes they wear in the comics.  And in the first X-Men film, Cyclops even takes a moment to mock Wolverine's comic costume ("What would YOU prefer.....yellow spandex?").  You know what?  I'm getting really fucking sick and tired of Hollywood telling me what to think.  How about giving us what we want, instead of trying to condition us into accepting your watered-down, barely recognizable, street-clothes wearing versions of the characters we want to see.  I mean, it's a really good thing that Danny constantly tells us he's Iron Fist.  Otherwise, who would know?  Give him the damn costume!

-When Stick said: "Now it's a party", I wanted to kill myself.  Whose shtick felt more overused and cringe-worthy, Stick's or Jessica's?

I could go on and on, but I'll just summarize by saying that I expected the Defenders to wash away the disappointment I felt with the non-Daredevil shows.  It didn't.  I'll still watch them when they come out, but I'll no longer look forward to them.
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 12:41:36 am »



I could go on and on, but I'll just summarize by saying that I expected the Defenders to wash away the disappointment I felt with the non-Daredevil shows.  It didn't.  I'll still watch them when they come out, but I'll no longer look forward to them.

Preach, brother, preach!  Cheers

Everything you said and more, The Defenders was one of the biggest disappointments in 2017 and after a four-year build up a monumental failure.
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 05:02:01 pm »

I really liked Iron Fist.  I don't understand all the hate for it.
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 11:12:57 pm »

I really liked Iron Fist.  I don't understand all the hate for it.

They could've given us the costume, but they didn't.
They could've given us some really cool training flashbacks, like in "Kung Fu", but they didn't.
They could've shown Danny's fight with the dragon, but they wanted to save money, so they didn't.
They could've given Danny a fascinating personality, shaped by eastern philosophies, but instead they just had him act like an unthinking,  impetuous brat.
They could've shaved off several episodes, but instead decided to stretch it out endlessly, like they did with Luke Cage and Jessica Jones (I'll murder Killgrave....no I won't.....yes I will....no, it isn't right......yes I will.....no, I'll try to reform him.....no, I can't reform him......maybe his parents can help.....no, they only made things worse.......I FINALLY FUCKING KILLED HIM!!!!!   If there's a moral to season 1 of Jessica Jones,
I'm totally clueless.   Sorry, I digress.

I wish I had the ability to ignore the faults of JJ, LC, and IF, but I can't.  I've been reading comics since '75, and as a result, I had high expectations that were only met by DD 1 & 2.  Those are masterpieces!  Sure, I wish they'd hired a few parkour masters and stuck them in the suit and spent more time showing Daredevil flipping around the rooftops.  But except for minor gripes, I can't complain.  The others, however, I could complain about for days.

I envy your ability to like Iron Fist, I really do.
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2017, 02:02:56 am »

I really liked Iron Fist.  I don't understand all the hate for it.
I've been reading comics since '75, and as a result, I had high expectations that were only met by DD 1 & 2.  Those are masterpieces!  Sure, I wish they'd hired a few parkour masters and stuck them in the suit and spent more time showing Daredevil flipping around the rooftops.  But except for minor gripes, I can't complain.  The others, however, I could complain about for days.


I'm a DC comic book reader. Nice to meet you.  Grin

Since you're (probably) a Marvel fan I wanted to ask you what you would have thought had they not done the Danny Rand Ironfist instead going for either a brand new Ironfist or pulling up one of the older or lesser known Ironfists?

TBH I really hate the SJW let's be inclusive trend going on in comic books. However, this Ironfist sucked warty green balls. He had nothing to do. His conflict, I mean, the cliche is that his parents were killed and he has to find justice yada, yada, yada. I would have prefered they cast an Asian or Asian/American to play the role. This person's central conflict would have been which world does he truly belong to or how does he square the two cultural circles he comes from. I think that conflict would have been interesting to watch and would resonate more with the times more than poor little rich boy. Those discussions between he and Madam Gao would have been a hell of a lot better.

Speaking of Madam M., that whole sequence when he walks into her trap, meets the two fighters, the spider, etc. that had the potential to be really good but it was yet another example of the actor not being suitable for the role: He does not move like a fighter. The fights were edited badly and the writers disregarded the first rule Rand stated in episode one, that when he's cornered the Ironfist protects him (or some such like when he was tied up and put in that room with nutjobs).

For Luke Cage and Jessica Jones, I think the writers should have developed some side plots in order to extend the series rather than, as you correctly said, drag it out longer than it needed to be. I would have loved to have seen more of Misty's backstory, or perhaps how Harlem changed after The Avengers. LC's father was a preacher. No character has ever mentioned the revelation about life existing off our planet and the writers had a perfect reason for crime to take off in a new nhilistic direction, i.e. god must not exist therefore anything I do is okay.

 

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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 09:42:55 pm »

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I'm a DC comic book reader. Nice to meet you.  Grin

Although I mainly gravitated to the Marvel books, I did read a lot of DC as well.  (As proof, I had one of my letters printed in an issue of Captain Carrot and I sent in a (unused) character design for "Dial H For Hero").  My favorite comics were Batman/Detective Comics, Captain Carrot, Teen Titans, Blue Devil, and the Will Payton version of Starman. 

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what you would have thought had they not done the Danny Rand Ironfist instead going for either a brand new Ironfist or pulling up one of the older or lesser known Ironfists?

My comic reading days are done.  I keep trying to get back into it, but the magic is gone.  Thus, I never read any Iron Fist past "Heroes For Hire".  Therefore, I prefer the Danny Rand version of Iron Fist that I knew from back then.  I just wish they'd done him RIGHT!

[Speaking of Madam Gao...]

I agree with everything you said.  I want to add, however, that I loved Madame Gao during Daredevil S1.  She was so casually heartless, filled with helpful, but cruel observations about everyone.  Loved it.  And just when I thought I couldn't love her any more, she goes and hits Daredevil so hard that he flew across the room!  When I saw that, I jumped up and screamed "OHMYGOD!  She's from K'un Lun!!!!!!"
.....so of course the Iron Fist show comes along and makes her seem weak and powerless, and the Defenders comes along and makes her POINTLESS!!!

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LC's father was a preacher. No character has ever mentioned the revelation about life existing off our planet and the writers had a perfect reason for crime to take off in a new nhilistic direction, i.e. god must not exist therefore anything I do is okay.

A good plot idea, but they'd never do it.  Think about how the Marvel movies and shows bend over backwards to avoid offending the masses. I doubt they'd offend Christians by questioning the existence of God, because they don't even have the guts to offend them by having even one gay man (except barely ever seen Joey from A.O.S., spiritual brother of Matt from Melrose Place).  In addition, Jessica doesn't smoke or say her trademark: "Fuck!",  Luke Cage went from an angry black man to a big 'ole softy whose racial views are summed up as "It's complicated", the Ancient One is white, and the Purple Man's sickening, ever-increasing appetite for murder and all forms of sexual depravity was dropped in favor of making him.....what?  Audience friendly?  Oh well, at least no one was offended enough to drop their Netflix account.  Bored, but not offended.

Yeesh!  For someone who keeps saying they could go on and on, this thread sure is making me go on and on.
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2017, 01:43:29 am »

Quote
Quote
[Speaking of Madam Gao...]

I agree with everything you said.  I want to add, however, that I loved Madame Gao during Daredevil S1.  She was so casually heartless, filled with helpful, but cruel observations about everyone.  Loved it.  And just when I thought I couldn't love her any more, she goes and hits Daredevil so hard that he flew across the room!  When I saw that, I jumped up and screamed "OHMYGOD!  She's from K'un Lun!!!!!!"
.....so of course the Iron Fist show comes along and makes her seem weak and powerless, and the Defenders comes along and makes her POINTLESS!!!

Quote

A good plot idea, but they'd never do it.  Think about how the Marvel movies and shows bend over backwards to avoid offending the masses.
Yeesh!  For someone who keeps saying they could go on and on, this thread sure is making me go on and on.

If you do ever want to go back and read something comic book related, there's a very interesting arc in DC now where they're bringing over The Watchmen into DC continuity. I'm saving up the issues for a cold winters night 'round Xmas -- I need my own form of Xmas cheer.


(Imagine me as a chorus of old black women, hands waving in the air as you preach on about what they did to Madam Gao. Amen!) 

 
I wonder if you'll agree, for me, Marvel is the kid-friendly version of comic books. Marvel is the candy cigarettes they used to sell to prime them for later addiction. In this way, their plots are not just kid-friendly, the color palate bright, the stories about absolute good vs evil. Parents set their children in front of an Ironman DVD and left the room. These people are are growing up into the DC haters who can't accept the nuances that could exist in a cinematic/live-action universe.

DC, by contrast, perhaps because Batman became their main face, doesn't wrestle with wholesale good vs evil (anymore). Superman is nuanced. Wonderwoman had to let go of her childhood ideals. Criminals aren't all bad, have hopes and regrets.

For me, Marvel is largely for kids, DC aims for an older audience; Marvel's movies will eventually be outlived by DC's because DC is focusing on character development over special effects (which always get upgraded).


 
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2017, 05:43:36 am »

Sorry, but I've been out of comics for so long that I am sorely unqualified to discuss the present state of childishness in Marvel vs. DC.

In my day, the level of maturity of a story depended on whoever was writing the book, not the company that put it out. 

As far as the movies are concerned, I don't share your optimism about DC.  I really liked Wonder Woman, and I sorta liked Man of Steel, but the others....not so much.  I especially hated Superman vs. Batman.  I'd been waiting for a live-action Batman/Superman meet-up for DECADES, and when I finally got it, it was utter garbage.  Zack Snyder and his bleak, colorless film style need to get the hell away from my childhood fantasies!  I'm glad he's off Justice League, but I'm not too sure that the man who gave us Avengers: Age of Ultron will do much better.

We'll see.
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 05:41:05 am »

I just learned that Danny will be in the second season of Luke Cage.   blow nose

Luke Cage and Iron Fist

Luke Cage and Daredevil   Cheesy
Luke Cage and Blade   Cheers
Luke Cage and Moon Knight
Luke Cage and Deathlok
Luke Cage and anyone with powers who actually wears a fucking MASK!!!  You know, a SUPER HERO!!!!


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