NOW China decides to cut off loans to North Korea
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« on: September 21, 2017, 07:19:13 pm »

Talk about too little, too LATE.  
NOW China is cutting off loans to North Korea.   China would neeeeeever lie would they?  Or more accurately, when has China ever told the truth?   Everything is a scheme with them.  
Meanwhile, the newly elected leader of SOUTH Korea just sent $8 million in humanitarian aid to North Korea.  WTF is that?  NK has been threatening to kill millions of South Koreans overnight for decades, and SK is sending them money?  Insanity.  

North Korea is laughing at Trump's warnings.  

What people fail to realize is that the time for diplomacy and negotiations with North Korea has passed.   They already have the technology and materials for ICBMs and nukes.  They have to be stopped and be demilitarized.  .  
Maybe the best thing would be to let Japan take over all of Korea.  That would cause China to shit their pants.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/21/china-banks-reportedly-to-halt-business-with-north-korea-as-south-korea-sends-8-million.html
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 07:32:23 pm by (Hidden) » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 11:48:43 am »

Hyperbole aside do you know anything about Asia?
 
I live in Japan and what you said makes as much sense as having Canada take over the US and Mexico because they've been fucking up too much and can't play nicely together.

Personally, I think it would be better to let the North Koreans starve but since the Cold War ended, along with Soviet help, North Korea has been rattling its saber and getting food aide. Trump's the first person to say no which puts both Koreas in a bind. If the South hadn't impeached their previous president there's a strong likelihood she'd have gone along with Trump but the people elected someone who was very public about bringing the two Koreas together. The North is in an awkward position because they know they can't win but they can't back down. And so the people in South Korea **want to** feed their neighbors and families in the North. That might end up being the band-aid for the moment.

China isn't being shady. Chinese culture and political philosophy are 180 degrees different from the West. They seek cooperation, especially as a country full of potential refugees sits on their doorstep.   

And Japan wants no part of Korea. The problems between N/S Korea and Japan started when Japan invaded the peninsula in the late 1800's, killed the royal family and declared it (and eventually Manchuria) a territory of Japan. All of North Korea's hostility towards Japan, with their rockets overhead flybys, can be traced back to those imperial times.

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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 01:52:18 pm »

Hyperbole aside do you know anything about Asia?
 
I live in Japan and what you said makes as much sense as having Canada take over the US and Mexico because they've been fucking up too much and can't play nicely together.

Personally, I think it would be better to let the North Koreans starve but since the Cold War ended, along with Soviet help, North Korea has been rattling its saber and getting food aide. Trump's the first person to say no which puts both Koreas in a bind. If the South hadn't impeached their previous president there's a strong likelihood she'd have gone along with Trump but the people elected someone who was very public about bringing the two Koreas together. The North is in an awkward position because they know they can't win but they can't back down. And so the people in South Korea **want to** feed their neighbors and families in the North. That might end up being the band-aid for the moment.

China isn't being shady. Chinese culture and political philosophy are 180 degrees different from the West. They seek cooperation, especially as a country full of potential refugees sits on their doorstep.   

And Japan wants no part of Korea. The problems between N/S Korea and Japan started when Japan invaded the peninsula in the late 1800's, killed the royal family and declared it (and eventually Manchuria) a territory of Japan. All of North Korea's hostility towards Japan, with their rockets overhead flybys, can be traced back to those imperial times.



It sounds like you know the asian perspective of Korea.  Seems to me that Japan could use some more land for people, development, resources, etc.  Whatever the case,  North Korea has already gone past the point of no return, and they need to be disarmed. 

I wonder where North Korea gets the food to feed their military.    Their people are so malnourished that they are affected physically and mentally.. and yet.. they manage to produce the technology and hardware for nukes, ICBMs, and fighter planes.   
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 04:12:22 pm »


Well, I live in Japan. Korea is a common weekend trip. Wink 

Japan's population is shrinking, not growing. The news here centers on the number of unused homes, empty apartments, and small towns that are uninhabited. Japan neither needs nor wants any part of Korea. As for natural resources, those are in NK.   
   
North Korea -- I almost went there on holiday once -- isn't so unlike the US. Within our borders we have the world's largest prison population. North Korea uses theirs for domestic slave labor; we pay prisoners less than minimum wage for their services. 

NK gets the food to feed its military through trade with China and Russia. It's not often reported in the western press but NK sends slave workers to China and Russia as a resource. Along with that NK gets food aid from the UN, Japan, the US. Those goods are distributed first to the elite and then to the poor. 
   
I think NK is grossly misunderstood and we all should try rethink our assumptions.
 
To be sure, NK has to lose its nuclear program but at the same time, the West has to accept that it forced them into a position where they felt they needed to arm themselves **not** to be taken over. They need to either assassinate Kim Un or ease NK back into the global community through trade. 
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 06:57:12 pm »

Asvdq
Well, I live in Japan. Korea is a common weekend trip. Wink 

Japan's population is shrinking, not growing. The news here centers on the number of unused homes, empty apartments, and small towns that are uninhabited. Japan neither needs nor wants any part of Korea. As for natural resources, those are in NK.   
   
North Korea -- I almost went there on holiday once -- isn't so unlike the US. Within our borders we have the world's largest prison population. North Korea uses theirs for domestic slave labor; we pay prisoners less than minimum wage for their services. 

NK gets the food to feed its military through trade with China and Russia. It's not often reported in the western press but NK sends slave workers to China and Russia as a resource. Along with that NK gets food aid from the UN, Japan, the US. Those goods are distributed first to the elite and then to the poor. 
   
I think NK is grossly misunderstood and we all should try rethink our assumptions.
 
To be sure, NK has to lose its nuclear program but at the same time, the West has to accept that it forced them into a position where they felt they needed to arm themselves **not** to be taken over. They need to either assassinate Kim Un or ease NK back into the global community through trade. 

I was not aware of that.  I heard that Japan had to make artificial islands and level off mountains into flat surfaces to create more land.  I also heard that in Japan, entire families have to live in the same house for several generations to pay for it. 

I wonder who is paying China and Russia for the foot, I don't think China and Russia are known for giving food away.

If North Korea is interested in TRADE... why don't they try offering to do away with their nukes and ICBMs in exchange for better trade?  They do the opposite.. they keep going further with their nukes and ICBMs leading to even more sanctions and embargos. 

It's also not very nice of that fat turd ruling NK to execute people including his own family members and closest advisors by blasting them to bits with anti-aircraft artillery.     Hmm.. that might be a good idea!  Line up  Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, Waters, McCain, Colbert, Lemon, etc. and mow them down with artillery! 
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 07:25:42 pm »

Asvdq


I was not aware of that.  I heard that Japan had to make artificial islands and level off mountains into flat surfaces to create more land.  I also heard that in Japan, entire families have to live in the same house for several generations to pay for it. 

I wonder who is paying China and Russia for the foot, I don't think China and Russia are known for giving food away.

If North Korea is interested in TRADE... why don't they try offering to do away with their nukes and ICBMs in exchange for better trade?  They do the opposite.. they keep going further with their nukes and ICBMs leading to even more sanctions and embargos. 

It's also not very nice of that fat turd ruling NK to execute people including his own family members and closest advisors by blasting them to bits with anti-aircraft artillery.     Hmm.. that might be a good idea!  Line up  Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, Waters, McCain, Colbert, Lemon, etc. and mow them down with artillery! 

I showed my bf your comment about Japan. He's speechless. (lol) He never shuts up, too. Thank you. 
 
I'm quoting here, "No. What?", with a priceless quizzical face. 

He says after the war there was a need to expand and that they did need to reclaim land and plan for food but that's more his grand parent's issue. As for the house, no. Mortgages actually have really low interest rates here. They pay them off quickly.   
 
North Korea does produce things, including food. Their main trading partners are China, South Korea, and Russia. With the sanctions, they're limited in what they can trade and to whom.

As for nukes, North Korea has a political philosophy called Juche where the leaders are, more or less, worshiped. Think of it as the Kims are everyone's father-figure and they are his/their children. All must obey the father. It goes a long way in understanding the cult of personality surrounding that family. They also have a military policy called songun which means the military is on top because it protects the nation (which is one big extended family). If you're lucky enough to get in the military, you're set for life, and just as we, in the West, support our Capitalist/Democratic ideologies **even though** some things are fucked up, the people of North Korea have never risen against their leaders. In the context of Asian thinking and their political beliefs, it makes perfect sense.   
 
The Kim's sought out nuclear weapons simply because it affords status on the world stage. Think about it: If NK had real nuclear missiles they'd have a powerful bargaining chip to renegotiate their position. That's what they're going for and the former President Clinton was stupid enough to give it to them. If Hilary had won, Kim would be setting the terms right now. Not likely with Trump, though; and so the world is on edge.   
   
It is true that Kim had his relatives executed. It's also true that his nephew, that now dead brother's son, wants to change NK, and that's a no-no. Again, juche and songun.   
   
And I wouldn't believe take literally what someone says in the paper right now about what happens in North Korea. There's a lot of incentive to paint them as evil mosters in case we go to war. My feeling is that these stories were released towards that end.



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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 04:22:46 am »

Asvdq


I was not aware of that.  I heard that Japan had to make artificial islands and level off mountains into flat surfaces to create more land.  I also heard that in Japan, entire families have to live in the same house for several generations to pay for it. 

I wonder who is paying China and Russia for the foot, I don't think China and Russia are known for giving food away.

If North Korea is interested in TRADE... why don't they try offering to do away with their nukes and ICBMs in exchange for better trade?  They do the opposite.. they keep going further with their nukes and ICBMs leading to even more sanctions and embargos. 

It's also not very nice of that fat turd ruling NK to execute people including his own family members and closest advisors by blasting them to bits with anti-aircraft artillery.     Hmm.. that might be a good idea!  Line up  Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, Waters, McCain, Colbert, Lemon, etc. and mow them down with artillery! 

I showed my bf your comment about Japan. He's speechless. (lol) He never shuts up, too. Thank you. 
 
I'm quoting here, "No. What?", with a priceless quizzical face. 

He says after the war there was a need to expand and that they did need to reclaim land and plan for food but that's more his grand parent's issue. As for the house, no. Mortgages actually have really low interest rates here. They pay them off quickly.   
 
North Korea does produce things, including food. Their main trading partners are China, South Korea, and Russia. With the sanctions, they're limited in what they can trade and to whom.

As for nukes, North Korea has a political philosophy called Juche where the leaders are, more or less, worshiped. Think of it as the Kims are everyone's father-figure and they are his/their children. All must obey the father. It goes a long way in understanding the cult of personality surrounding that family. They also have a military policy called songun which means the military is on top because it protects the nation (which is one big extended family). If you're lucky enough to get in the military, you're set for life, and just as we, in the West, support our Capitalist/Democratic ideologies **even though** some things are fucked up, the people of North Korea have never risen against their leaders. In the context of Asian thinking and their political beliefs, it makes perfect sense.   
 
The Kim's sought out nuclear weapons simply because it affords status on the world stage. Think about it: If NK had real nuclear missiles they'd have a powerful bargaining chip to renegotiate their position. That's what they're going for and the former President Clinton was stupid enough to give it to them. If Hilary had won, Kim would be setting the terms right now. Not likely with Trump, though; and so the world is on edge.   
   
It is true that Kim had his relatives executed. It's also true that his nephew, that now dead brother's son, wants to change NK, and that's a no-no. Again, juche and songun.   
   
And I wouldn't believe take literally what someone says in the paper right now about what happens in North Korea. There's a lot of incentive to paint them as evil mosters in case we go to war. My feeling is that these stories were released towards that end.


What does Japan think about Kim Jun Un vowing to sink Japan into the ocean with nukes?

I agree that up until now, NK's system of blackmail and bluffs has worked fairly well for them.  It won't work with Trump.   In fact, one thing Trump can do without the approval of congress is to attack anybody he wants.  He might attack NK just as a demonstration to show people who's boss.  Trump has already done this in Syria and Afghanistan on a small scale.  Those were the two times when the democraps were HAPPY and supportive of Trump.
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 04:46:50 am »

I don't know a single person who thinks that NK will bomb Japan but the government is responsible for taking the threat seriously and so there is a lot of talk on the news about what to do. PM Abe is using the threat to help push forward amendments to the constitution (allowing Japan to have a defensive and offensive military) -- and it will work, the balls already rolling on that.   
   
Everyone knows Kim's words are bluster and part of the Korean language and temperament. The Korea's are kind of like the Italians of Asia: Lots of big gesticulations and loaded speech but largely impotent and poor. 
 
I do wonder what Trump will do. Haven't a clue. If he's going to attack I wonder how China will respond? China wouldn't attack the US but they might use offensive maneuvers. However, at play for China is their claim (and man-made island) in the South China Seas. They could use an attack on North Korea as a means to show the US what it would be willing to do to defend it's territories there. I can't see any reason for Russia to become involved and Japan can't by the very laws that the US forced into their constitution after WWII.
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 05:24:15 am »

I don't know a single person who thinks that NK will bomb Japan but the government is responsible for taking the threat seriously and so there is a lot of talk on the news about what to do. PM Abe is using the threat to help push forward amendments to the constitution (allowing Japan to have a defensive and offensive military) -- and it will work, the balls already rolling on that.   
 

I guess Kim Jung Un vowing to sink Japan into the ocean means nothing..
Rocketman recently launched 2 ICBM's right over Japan, causing Japan to warn their citizens to seek shelter.
KJU has been consistently setting off more ICBM tests and more nuclear explostions.. and now says he is considering
detonating a nuke over the Pacific Ocean. 

What does NK have to do before people consider him to be a real threat?   Nuke NYC?   He's already got the missiles that can reach NYC in 40 mins.
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 05:40:44 am »


I guess Kim Jung Un vowing to sink Japan into the ocean means nothing..
Rocketman recently launched 2 ICBM's right over Japan, causing Japan to warn their citizens to seek shelter.
KJU has been consistently setting off more ICBM tests and more nuclear explostions.. and now says he is considering
detonating a nuke over the Pacific Ocean. 

What does NK have to do before people consider him to be a real threat?   Nuke NYC?   He's already got the missiles that can reach NYC in 40 mins.


Yes and no.

Do you speak another language? In translating between A and B a lot is lost. Translating to any Latin or Germanic language from any of the Asian languages makes those translations 1000 times more difficult because there are subtleties built into each language.   
 
In Japanese they have keigo, honorifics based on age and social position. Translations often make Japanese sound more polite and distant than it actually is and makes for terrible translations when taken literally. The same is true for Korea. How, exactly, do you sink an island? Kim's words are bluster and people here understand that. 
 
As for seeking shelter, be aware of the bias in the news you watch. There's a need to cast the tiny little-impoverished country of North Korea as a supervillain capable of destroying the US. That way of thinking about individuals terrorists gave us The Patriot Act. Those misdirections in the news made it okay to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan.   
 
No one went looking for shelter when NK sent rockets over Japan. Not even close. They did broadcast it on the news and that's all they talked about for the hour or so it happened. What's odd to me is that NK has launched missiles over Japan before with much less fuss. What's different? PM Abe wants to pass his amendments changing the constitution. Nothing says we need an army like a country flying missiles over your northernmost, least densely populated region.
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 06:26:40 am »


I guess Kim Jung Un vowing to sink Japan into the ocean means nothing..
Rocketman recently launched 2 ICBM's right over Japan, causing Japan to warn their citizens to seek shelter.
KJU has been consistently setting off more ICBM tests and more nuclear explostions.. and now says he is considering
detonating a nuke over the Pacific Ocean. 

What does NK have to do before people consider him to be a real threat?   Nuke NYC?   He's already got the missiles that can reach NYC in 40 mins.


Yes and no.

Do you speak another language? In translating between A and B a lot is lost. Translating to any Latin or Germanic language from any of the Asian languages makes those translations 1000 times more difficult because there are subtleties built into each language.   
 
In Japanese they have keigo, honorifics based on age and social position. Translations often make Japanese sound more polite and distant than it actually is and makes for terrible translations when taken literally. The same is true for Korea. How, exactly, do you sink an island? Kim's words are bluster and people here understand that. 
 
As for seeking shelter, be aware of the bias in the news you watch. There's a need to cast the tiny little-impoverished country of North Korea as a supervillain capable of destroying the US. That way of thinking about individuals terrorists gave us The Patriot Act. Those misdirections in the news made it okay to bomb Iraq and Afghanistan.   
 
No one went looking for shelter when NK sent rockets over Japan. Not even close. They did broadcast it on the news and that's all they talked about for the hour or so it happened. What's odd to me is that NK has launched missiles over Japan before with much less fuss. What's different? PM Abe wants to pass his amendments changing the constitution. Nothing says we need an army like a country flying missiles over your northernmost, least densely populated region.

In regards to translation, I'm glad you mentioned that.   Specifically,  translating between Chinese and English is damned near impossible. 
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