Justice system disaster
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« on: November 09, 2017, 03:49:50 pm »

A man was just executed for a rape which turned into a murder.  Let's assume that the death penalty is appropriate for such a crime.

But there are some problems.  The crime was 20 years ago.  It could be said that the man they executed today is not the same man that committed the crime 20 years ago.   People change over time.  It bothers me when someone is executed for something they did so long ago.  Once there is a death sentence, they should be executed within a certain time period.. perhaps 2 years.. otherwise their sentence should be changed to life in prison. 

Another problem with this same case.  The man CONFESSED to the crime.  What kind of message does it send to criminals when a confession doesn't keep them from being executed?  Who is going to confess to a crime when a confession doesn't help them?  Unless the confession was not revealed to the jury, the death penalty should never have been considered.  If there was enough solid evidence to convict the man - such as being caught in the act of the crime - then the confession should not help the defendant because he's only trying to save himself. But again.. if that is the case, the confession should not be presented at the trial. 

I'm not upset about this particular execution.. because the man they executed is quite evil.  But even then, society shouldn't be executing people just because we don't like them.   The media has a way of demonizing people. 
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 04:40:00 pm »

I'm not concerned with the time between crime and the death sentence.   

I do agree with you about the confession part, though.   He confessed, so life without parole would be my choice.   HOWEVER, why was there a trial if he confessed?   Did he change his mind about the confession and plead not guilty? 

Anyway, some people are tricked into confessing by the police.   I've told the story of the 4 July 1976 rapes in my hometown.   The police picked up a well like mentally disabled man and convinced him that if he confessed he could go home and that would be the end of it.    Pretty much everyone in the town knew the guy and saw him at the fireworks display, because he was very friendly and always said HI to everyone he saw, even if he didn't know them.    He avoided the death penalty because he was mentally disabled.    Anyway, the Innocence Project or one of them, after nearly 20 years, got him out and proved he was innocent. 

Public Defenders, despite working for the state, have very little resources compared to the DA who work for the same state.    They also don't have the time to do a good job for each case.   

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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 06:18:30 pm »

It's always been a disaster!
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 11:06:45 pm »

I'm not concerned with the time between crime and the death sentence.   

I do agree with you about the confession part, though.   He confessed, so life without parole would be my choice.   HOWEVER, why was there a trial if he confessed?   Did he change his mind about the confession and plead not guilty? 

Anyway, some people are tricked into confessing by the police.   I've told the story of the 4 July 1976 rapes in my hometown.   The police picked up a well like mentally disabled man and convinced him that if he confessed he could go home and that would be the end of it.    Pretty much everyone in the town knew the guy and saw him at the fireworks display, because he was very friendly and always said HI to everyone he saw, even if he didn't know them.    He avoided the death penalty because he was mentally disabled.    Anyway, the Innocence Project or one of them, after nearly 20 years, got him out and proved he was innocent. 

Public Defenders, despite working for the state, have very little resources compared to the DA who work for the same state.    They also don't have the time to do a good job for each case.   



Public Defenders in Florida are a joke.   They show up in court with all their active cases in a box containing files that is about 2 feet long.   They often do dozens of cases per day.  The same public defender working on a misdemeanor is also handling 1st degree murder cases.  I know of a public defender who has a felony record herself, which is supposed to result in being disbarred, but did NOT in her case.  Anybody having her as a public defender could get a mistrial because of that fact.

Here is the inmate pen pal page of the guy that was just executed.  I'm puzzled that he has a myspace account.   I guess some states give internet access to death row inmates?
https://prisoninmates.com/RubenCardenasF70949

Here is a story about the execution.  He was not even a US citizen.. executing non-citizens is a touchy topic.  There are some that say he was innocent.   Read the story for yourself.. it's very short.


I could not find detailed information about this case.  but it looks like a confession was BEATEN out of him.  This is not unlike an old school lynching of a black guy for being the most likely suspect:
https://www.innocenceproject.org/ruben-cardenas-ramirez-scheduled-execution-november-may-innocent/

The guy claimed the confession was coerced.   I can't find any information about the trial. 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-latest-lawsuits-filed-for-man-facing-execution-tonight/2017/11/08/9e49b2ec-c4b1-11e7-9922-4151f5ca6168_story.html?utm_term=.e5ab3f076a1b

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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 05:10:44 am »

Looks like the downvoting douchebags are back.   They don't care what's posted, they just down vote their enemies.
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 05:54:06 am »

I'm not concerned with the time between crime and the death sentence.   

I do agree with you about the confession part, though.   He confessed, so life without parole would be my choice.   HOWEVER, why was there a trial if he confessed?   Did he change his mind about the confession and plead not guilty? 

Anyway, some people are tricked into confessing by the police.   I've told the story of the 4 July 1976 rapes in my hometown.   The police picked up a well like mentally disabled man and convinced him that if he confessed he could go home and that would be the end of it.    Pretty much everyone in the town knew the guy and saw him at the fireworks display, because he was very friendly and always said HI to everyone he saw, even if he didn't know them.    He avoided the death penalty because he was mentally disabled.    Anyway, the Innocence Project or one of them, after nearly 20 years, got him out and proved he was innocent. 

Public Defenders, despite working for the state, have very little resources compared to the DA who work for the same state.    They also don't have the time to do a good job for each case.   



I think the time passed from the crime to the execution is a valid point.  Let's exaggerate it a bit.  Let's say a man was convicted of murder when he was 18 years old.  50 years later when he is 68, they decide to execute him.  The person they are executing is NOT the same person that committed that crime when they were 18 years old.  Should he be forgiven?  Perhaps not, but should be be executed?  No.  If there was such a good reason to execute the guy, the sentence should have been carried out within as short a time as possible after the crime.
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 08:09:55 am »

If you murder someone and get away with it for 50 years, have you really changed?   You haven't turned yourself in, you just got caught somehow.
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 01:17:20 pm »

If you murder someone and get away with it for 50 years, have you really changed?   You haven't turned yourself in, you just got caught somehow.

Whoops.. I didn't state my comment clearly. 
What I had in mind is a person who commits a crime, is convicted and put on death row.. but sits on death row for 50 years before being executed.  Once they are convicted and put on death row, there should be a time limit on how long someone can be on death row before being executed - otherwise they should be taken off death row and have their sentence changed to life in prison.


By the way, the main reason I hate Twitter is because it is usually impossible to make a clear and complete statement with just 140 characters.  It leaves too much open to interpretation and ambiguity.
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 06:00:53 pm »

The problem with your point is that a lot of people become believers because they know the parole board loves that. 

If they (parole boards, clemency panels, etc) remove religion from the discussion, then I would tend to agree with you. 

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Twitter is starting to issue account upgrades to 240 characters.   Of course they are starting with the people they like and working from there.

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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 01:13:44 am »

The problem with your point is that a lot of people become believers because they know the parole board loves that. 

If they (parole boards, clemency panels, etc) remove religion from the discussion, then I would tend to agree with you. 

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Twitter is starting to issue account upgrades to 240 characters.   Of course they are starting with the people they like and working from there.



Inmates are highly pressured to seek religion.  I don't agree with that approach.  Religion is a panacea for weak minded people.

I've only encountered a LONG Twitter once.  That surprised me.. I don't see how or why they would increase the limit on some accounts without doing it to all accounts.  Twitter will probably keep Trump restricted to 140.
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