UCLA Players Depart China -- After Trump Asked for Xi's Help
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« on: November 14, 2017, 07:22:10 pm »

You may be aware of the three UCLA Basketball players who were detained by Chinese police on November 7, on allegations of shoplifting from a Louis Vuitton store -- ironically, occurring during a sports "goodwill tour."

And while the young men might have been subject to a three- to 10-year sentence -- depending on interpretation of Chinese criminal code -- they went home today, after U.S. President Donald Trump said he had sought the help of Chinese President Xi Jinping.  Trump later told reporters, “What they did was unfortunate.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ucla-china/ucla-players-depart-china-after-trump-asked-for-xis-help-idUSKBN1DE0E6
 
Do you think the President was correct to ask the favor of President Xi?  Or, should the case have proceeded?  Does "unfortunate" convey the right message to our youth?

Do you feel that, whatever the sport, American athletes deserve this level of intervention overseas?  Or, was there something in this particular drama that made it "especially deserving"?
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 08:20:57 pm »

You may be aware of the three UCLA Basketball players who were detained by Chinese police on November 7, on allegations of shoplifting from a Louis Vuitton store -- ironically, occurring during a sports "goodwill tour."

And while the young men might have been subject to a three- to 10-year sentence -- depending on interpretation of Chinese criminal code -- they went home today, after U.S. President Donald Trump said he had sought the help of Chinese President Xi Jinping.  Trump later told reporters, “What they did was unfortunate.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ucla-china/ucla-players-depart-china-after-trump-asked-for-xis-help-idUSKBN1DE0E6
 
Do you think the President was correct to ask the favor of President Xi?  Or, should the case have proceeded?  Does "unfortunate" convey the right message to our youth?

Do you feel that, whatever the sport, American athletes deserve this level of intervention overseas?  Or, was there something in this particular drama that made it "especially deserving"?

It was various circumstances that led to that. 
First, I wonder what the "shoplifting" entailed.  Did they intentionally make sure nobody was looking and then slip the sunglasses into their pocket?  Or, did they try the glasses on, leave them on.. and walk out of the store - either thinking the store wouldn't mind the celebrities taking a gift.. or forgetting to take them off.   I remember many years ago, I went into a KMart to buy a quart of motor oil.  That KMart was part of a shopping mall.  It had several cash register aisles on the side of the store that led to the parking lot outside.  There was also a large opening where you could walk right into the main enclosed mall.  I forgot I was carrying the quart of oil, and walked right into the main mall by accident! 
Second, this shoplifting happened while Trump was in China.  Had it not, Trump would never have been sucked into the case.
Third, I'm sure that some reporter brought up the incident to Trump.  Trump was then OBLIGATED to mention it to Xi.. and Xi was OBLIGATED to let them off as a gesture of courtesy. 

Basically, it was a public relations problem that got easily resolved.   In fact, knowing how China operates, I would not be surprised if that players were somehow misled or set up to be caught for shoplifting while Trump was there.. so China could gain public relations points by "showing mercy" and deflecting their human rights violations by putting the heat on the USA while Trump was there.
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 11:19:52 pm »


Second, this shoplifting happened while Trump was in China.  Had it not, Trump would never have been sucked into the case.
Third, I'm sure that some reporter brought up the incident to Trump.  Trump was then OBLIGATED to mention it to Xi.. and Xi was OBLIGATED to let them off as a gesture of courtesy.  

I agree with Fred on the bolded.

Given the nature of the tour POTUS was taking, there was no other way to proceed. Personally, I think they should have been sent to Chinese prison in accordance with the law. If you're so disrespectful of another country that you decided to break their laws while there, you should be subject to their penalties. Also, they should lose their places on the UCLA basketball team. Others will justify this by justifying it through their stereotypes of Chinese people and the Chinese government. Others will say they were targeted because they are black.

On an aside, this morning one of Japan's top sumo players did some kind of violent action yesterday (I haven't read the details, yet.) He took responsibility and stepped down. THAT is what those basketball players should do. They are, for better or worse, role models. They broke the law. They'll most likely deny the charges or play the victim and so teach another generation the worst ways to act. Their supporters will use preexisting stereotypes of the Chinese and/or the Chinese government to support their justification; others will say the bb players were targeted because they're black.
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 02:20:00 am »


Second, this shoplifting happened while Trump was in China.  Had it not, Trump would never have been sucked into the case.
Third, I'm sure that some reporter brought up the incident to Trump.  Trump was then OBLIGATED to mention it to Xi.. and Xi was OBLIGATED to let them off as a gesture of courtesy.  

I agree with Fred on the bolded.

Given the nature of the tour POTUS was taking, there was no other way to proceed. Personally, I think they should have been sent to Chinese prison in accordance with the law. If you're so disrespectful of another country that you decided to break their laws while there, you should be subject to their penalties. Also, they should lose their places on the UCLA basketball team. Others will justify this by justifying it through their stereotypes of Chinese people and the Chinese government. Others will say they were targeted because they are black.

On an aside, this morning one of Japan's top sumo players did some kind of violent action yesterday (I haven't read the details, yet.) He took responsibility and stepped down. THAT is what those basketball players should do. They are, for better or worse, role models. They broke the law. They'll most likely deny the charges or play the victim and so teach another generation the worst ways to act. Their supporters will use preexisting stereotypes of the Chinese and/or the Chinese government to support their justification; others will say the bb players were targeted because they're black.

I wouldn't go that far... China has some pretty brutal laws.  They are not above executing someone for stealing $50.. and making the family of the criminal pay for the bullet used to execute the criminal.
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 05:29:22 am »

http://www.newsweek.com/lonzo-ball-liangelo-ball-lavar-ball-basketball-711547

I think I'm having difficulty staying completely neutral in judgment, due to the one player being from the (in)famous Lavar Ball "dynasty," that blowhard father with the ridiculous statements, and above all, the rapacious sneaker lines:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2732690-lavar-ball-teases-lavar-icci-big-baller-brand-shoe-1500-or-higher-price-tag

Which is to say, I would have been fine with a trial in China, particularly if the video evidence is compelling.  Three people don't all make the same "walked out absentmindedly" mistake.  Terrible, entitled ambassadors for the U.S.

As a Gator alum living through an awful football season -- precipitated by nine players being suspended for credit card fraud for silly purchases -- it never ceases to amaze me how student athletes can jeopardize their careers over such idiocy.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/26/16358578/florida-gators-football-players-charges-allegations-credit-card-fraud



« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 05:46:01 am by (Hidden) » Logged


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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 06:18:45 am »

http://www.newsweek.com/lonzo-ball-liangelo-ball-lavar-ball-basketball-711547

I think I'm having difficulty staying completely neutral in judgment, due to the one player being from the (in)famous Lavar Ball "dynasty," that blowhard father with the ridiculous statements, and above all, the rapacious sneaker lines:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2732690-lavar-ball-teases-lavar-icci-big-baller-brand-shoe-1500-or-higher-price-tag

Which is to say, I would have been fine with a trial in China, particularly if the video evidence is compelling.  Three people don't all make the same "walked out absentmindedly" mistake.  Terrible, entitled ambassadors for the U.S.

As a Gator alum living through an awful football season -- precipitated by nine players being suspended for credit card fraud for silly purchases -- it never ceases to amaze me how student athletes can jeopardize their careers over such idiocy.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/26/16358578/florida-gators-football-players-charges-allegations-credit-card-fraud





I never understood the concept of having sports teams at universities.  Obviously they are exploited to the Nth degree.  If they are going to have sports, they should not be allowed to televise the games, or at least not televise the games for money. 
At the University I went to, an old lady donated a massive amount of land to the University with the stipulation that they NEVER have a football team at that University.  About 20 years later, they managed to get their football team and keep the land, claiming the woman was senile when she made that stipulation in her will. 
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 10:03:18 am »

I ALWAYS hate when someone goes to another country, commits a crime and everyone from their home country gets butt hurt.   

Louise "baby killer" Woodward was a spoiled brat English bitch who went to the US to become a nanny for the ubber wealthy.   This was about 20 years ago.   Americans saw her as guilty, but Brits saw her as the victim of the barbaric, uncultured American legal system. 

Anyway, the home country should make sure that the legal system and human rights are followed; nothing more. 

If you go to another country and commit a crime, then you should have to face the music. 

I also noticed that it's a very gendered thing.   Men rarely get the sympathy that women get. 
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 01:47:48 am »

Upon their return to sunny SoCal, the troubled trio have been suspended from UCLA basketball "indefinitely."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21424183/ucla-bruins-players-suspended-indefinitely-china-shoplifting-incident

As well, Trump -- who tweeted about his need for recognition from the players -- received it in abundance:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ucla-basketball-players-admit-shoplifting-china-trump/story?id=51164270

Bearing in mind that college basketball teams have just begun a season that spans about 30 games, how long do you think the sticky-fingered ballers should ride the bench for an offense of this nature?  Or, predictions on what they will be given?  And if you're not into the sport, you can add your cruel (but honest) admissions of not caring.




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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 02:04:54 am »

Upon their return to sunny SoCal, the troubled trio have been suspended from UCLA basketball "indefinitely."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21424183/ucla-bruins-players-suspended-indefinitely-china-shoplifting-incident

As well, Trump -- who tweeted about his need for recognition from the players -- received it in abundance:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ucla-basketball-players-admit-shoplifting-china-trump/story?id=51164270

Bearing in mind that college basketball teams have just begun a season that spans about 30 games, how long do you think the sticky-fingered ballers should ride the bench for an offense of this nature?  Or, predictions on what they will be given?  And if you're not into the sport, you can add your cruel (but honest) admissions of not caring.






It's a matter of relativity..
For instance.. that POS NFL player Michael Vick was convicted of setting up a ring of pit bull fighting in which he bred, trained, and organized fights so people could watch dogs rip each other apart.  He was doing things such as immobilizing bitches so that the males could rape them, chaining up dogs so the pit pulls could have practice tearing apart another dog to pieces.  
Vick played with the Atlanta Falcons for 6 years, spent 21 months in prison.. was almost immediately signed with the Philadelphia Eagles, and spent 5 years with them, and continued to play for 3 more years before retiring!  POOR MICHAEL VICK!   He only got to play 14 years in the NFL.. he was stuck in prison for 21 months.. lets all cry for him!   They should have cut his balls off and had him watch his favorite pit bull eat them.  Better yet.. don't cut them off..    Tie Michael Vick down, cover him with pheromones from a pit bull in heat.. and let his boys have their way with him.   Then put him in a bunny fur suit and let them finish him off.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 03:52:03 am »

While the young men of UCLA were reading scripts prepared by some attorney or PR firm, they did seem contrite, as well they should be.

[Back then, I recall Vick making the media rounds, and besides his poor enunciation, he struck me as having the most sullen delivery and complete lack of authenticity of any "sports mea culpa" in my memory.]

So, I would like to see the trio sit out about 10 games, which is not that bad for UCLA's basketball program, as those are mostly out-of-conference, warm-up games against smaller schools.

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