Christianity and Gay
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« on: October 04, 2018, 04:23:37 pm »

Why do some church accept that and most don't.
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2020, 07:01:46 pm »

I look at it this way! God male us all in his image, Male Female Gay and straight, He knew what we would be before our birth and I know for a fact God Does Not Make Mistakes!
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 09:12:21 am »

Christianity is kind of odd.  It has the holy text of the jews as well as the holy texts of christians in 1 book. 

Conservative christians tend to follow the OT far more than they do the NT.  Obviously, liberal christians are the opposite.

Unlike other religions, christians generally admit that the bible has been altered constantly over the last 1800 years.     There are also many translation errors. 

In 1380'ish, John Wycliffe hand wrote the 1st ever English language bible, believing that everyone should be able to read it for themselves and not have the clergy be the only ones to read it.  He and his followers made nearly 70 of these bibles.  44 years after his death, the Pope found out about his bibles, so he ordered his bones be dug up, ground up and thrown into a river. 

In 1604, King James ordered that a single bible be made, because there were about 38 different versions floating around the UK at the time.   It was at this time that many of the anti-women parts of the bible were added.  It was approved and published in 1611.    King James banned all other versions of the bible on pain of death. 

Starting in the 1960s, there was a push by more liberal christians for a modern english version of the bible.  Conservative christians were against any bible other than the KJV.    As of last summer, there are 50 different versions of the english bible.  Once again, they vary in how they were created.  Some tried to stay true to the original Greek texts, while others tried to stay true to the KJV.  Of course, there's everything in between. 


NOTE:  There are obviously other bibles in other languages, but I'm only talking about the history of the english versions.
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 04:38:24 pm »

I'll talk about the Christian Bible from the POV of a Jew.

There are always problems of translation, especially since there's no such thing as a 'fixed text' in Christianity.  The Quran is written in Arabic and is word by word identical with all other copies.  The Jewish Torah is written in Hebrew and each copy must be letter by letter identical to the standard copies.  If you can read a Torah in 21st Century Canada you can read a Torah from Uganda, or 18th century Russia, or 12th century Spain or 1st Century Judea.  It's not meaningful to discuss the translations when the originals are available.  This doesn't apply to Christians who will try to figure out the implications of the text in their own language.

Biblical Hebrew doesn't use tenses like past/present/future only aspects perfect/imperfect. The verb never tells you WHEN something happened only whether or not it is in process.  There's a lot of disagreement whether something is a prophecy or a description of a current state.

Translations are always biased.  The implications of a word in one language are not the same as the implications of a word in another language.

So, the commandment "Man shall not lie with man like a woman, it is an abomination" is not authoritative.  It's in English not Hebrew.  The Hebrew doesn't mean what the Christians think it means.  'To'avah' gets translated as 'abomination' while it's a legal term referring to 'foreign religious practice'.

And that's even before getting into the entire idea that Christianity rejects Jewish law.
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 03:23:59 am »

Religion is bigotry. The bible teaches that one group of people are better then another set of people.  Religion is elitism it has don't nothing but harm the LGBTQ+ community.  It condemn this lifestyle and the people.  It makes LGBTQ+ people even judge themselves and many have taken their own life because of it.  Religion.
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 08:26:58 am »

Religion isn't bigotry, people are bigoted. People are judgmental and think they're better than other people and so when a religious ideology comes along that feeds their ego they love it and it reinforces their beliefs because it makes them feel good and that's what they want to hear. If we look at the fruitage of the tree of religion it has a lot of bloodshed. I wish religion would just go away. But it's like a shopping mall. You have all the choices, and people only hear what they want to hear. If you like country music, you're not going to buy a ticket to a rap concert. Religion is like a shopping mall, that's why churches are divided up into denominations like tens and twenties and fifties and hundreds and you have a prophet (profit). So much money - the church has billions in land property and gold relics and you got all these preachers living in mega mansions and all that while millions starve to death. It's a scourge on humanity and the epitome of hypocrisy as they say money is the root of all evil while they swim in it. The word church is from Mother Circe, and she would lure men into her temple and close the doors behind them and turn them into animals and then feed off them. Same thing Mother Church is doing today. It also gives the word Kirk, like the Kirk of the Valley Church because it's an enterprise... a business. But texts like the Bible don't actually promote hatred of homosexuality, it's just been twisted by those who can't read and just obey like sheep, so they have a shepherd. It makes things easy for them. Most Christians Muslims and Jews have never even read their holy books. That's what the Rabbis, Imams and Priests are for. Why do they need to read it when they got someone telling them what it says? That's the reason the Catholic Church created Latin so only the priests knew, and I think they killed people who got a copy of the texts until the printing press. Secrecy in government has always been with us.
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2020, 09:19:03 am »

Religion is bigotry when it is created by men who make their god in their own image.
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2020, 10:57:55 am »

Christianity is kind of odd.  It has the holy text of the jews as well as the holy texts of christians in 1 book. 

Conservative christians tend to follow the OT far more than they do the NT.  Obviously, liberal christians are the opposite.

Unlike other religions, christians generally admit that the bible has been altered constantly over the last 1800 years.     There are also many translation errors. 

In 1380'ish, John Wycliffe hand wrote the 1st ever English language bible, believing that everyone should be able to read it for themselves and not have the clergy be the only ones to read it.  He and his followers made nearly 70 of these bibles.  44 years after his death, the Pope found out about his bibles, so he ordered his bones be dug up, ground up and thrown into a river. 

In 1604, King James ordered that a single bible be made, because there were about 38 different versions floating around the UK at the time.   It was at this time that many of the anti-women parts of the bible were added.  It was approved and published in 1611.    King James banned all other versions of the bible on pain of death. 

Starting in the 1960s, there was a push by more liberal christians for a modern english version of the bible.  Conservative christians were against any bible other than the KJV.    As of last summer, there are 50 different versions of the english bible.  Once again, they vary in how they were created.  Some tried to stay true to the original Greek texts, while others tried to stay true to the KJV.  Of course, there's everything in between. 


NOTE:  There are obviously other bibles in other languages, but I'm only talking about the history of the english versions.

There are many versions of the original text, but a close approximation of a kind of urtext can be reconstructed from various sources, which is mostly agreed by most scholars. There are some differences, most of which are trivial. It isn't true that the 'anti-women' parts of the NT were added in 1611. They are in all Bibles. As you say, some Bibles are translations from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek and some are translations or editions of translations. There are more than 50 translations into English out there, although there may only be about 50 complete ones available for current purchase or easy acquisition via Amazon, etc.
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2020, 07:21:42 am »

Why do some church accept that and most don't.

Because some churches are run by people who care about their subjects, or at least PR, while other are simply a front and a convenient excuse for a bunch of disgruntled middle aged white men to hold onto their entitlement without doing anything to earn it. In both cases holy text and its interpretations is just a fig leaf to cover the ass.
And why some churches are first, and some are second - ma-an, I wish I knew, and how to change the second into first, but alas.
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2020, 02:42:28 am »

Religion is propaganda and should be removed from our society.  It's time we progressed in society instead of worshiping the supernatural.
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