Christianity and Gay
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« on: October 04, 2018, 04:23:37 pm »

Why do some church accept that and most don't.
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2020, 07:01:46 pm »

I look at it this way! God male us all in his image, Male Female Gay and straight, He knew what we would be before our birth and I know for a fact God Does Not Make Mistakes!
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 09:12:21 am »

Christianity is kind of odd.  It has the holy text of the jews as well as the holy texts of christians in 1 book. 

Conservative christians tend to follow the OT far more than they do the NT.  Obviously, liberal christians are the opposite.

Unlike other religions, christians generally admit that the bible has been altered constantly over the last 1800 years.     There are also many translation errors. 

In 1380'ish, John Wycliffe hand wrote the 1st ever English language bible, believing that everyone should be able to read it for themselves and not have the clergy be the only ones to read it.  He and his followers made nearly 70 of these bibles.  44 years after his death, the Pope found out about his bibles, so he ordered his bones be dug up, ground up and thrown into a river. 

In 1604, King James ordered that a single bible be made, because there were about 38 different versions floating around the UK at the time.   It was at this time that many of the anti-women parts of the bible were added.  It was approved and published in 1611.    King James banned all other versions of the bible on pain of death. 

Starting in the 1960s, there was a push by more liberal christians for a modern english version of the bible.  Conservative christians were against any bible other than the KJV.    As of last summer, there are 50 different versions of the english bible.  Once again, they vary in how they were created.  Some tried to stay true to the original Greek texts, while others tried to stay true to the KJV.  Of course, there's everything in between. 


NOTE:  There are obviously other bibles in other languages, but I'm only talking about the history of the english versions.
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 04:38:24 pm »

I'll talk about the Christian Bible from the POV of a Jew.

There are always problems of translation, especially since there's no such thing as a 'fixed text' in Christianity.  The Quran is written in Arabic and is word by word identical with all other copies.  The Jewish Torah is written in Hebrew and each copy must be letter by letter identical to the standard copies.  If you can read a Torah in 21st Century Canada you can read a Torah from Uganda, or 18th century Russia, or 12th century Spain or 1st Century Judea.  It's not meaningful to discuss the translations when the originals are available.  This doesn't apply to Christians who will try to figure out the implications of the text in their own language.

Biblical Hebrew doesn't use tenses like past/present/future only aspects perfect/imperfect. The verb never tells you WHEN something happened only whether or not it is in process.  There's a lot of disagreement whether something is a prophecy or a description of a current state.

Translations are always biased.  The implications of a word in one language are not the same as the implications of a word in another language.

So, the commandment "Man shall not lie with man like a woman, it is an abomination" is not authoritative.  It's in English not Hebrew.  The Hebrew doesn't mean what the Christians think it means.  'To'avah' gets translated as 'abomination' while it's a legal term referring to 'foreign religious practice'.

And that's even before getting into the entire idea that Christianity rejects Jewish law.
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 03:23:59 am »

Religion is bigotry. The bible teaches that one group of people are better then another set of people.  Religion is elitism it has don't nothing but harm the LGBTQ+ community.  It condemn this lifestyle and the people.  It makes LGBTQ+ people even judge themselves and many have taken their own life because of it.  Religion.
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 08:26:58 am »

Religion isn't bigotry, people are bigoted. People are judgmental and think they're better than other people and so when a religious ideology comes along that feeds their ego they love it and it reinforces their beliefs because it makes them feel good and that's what they want to hear. If we look at the fruitage of the tree of religion it has a lot of bloodshed. I wish religion would just go away. But it's like a shopping mall. You have all the choices, and people only hear what they want to hear. If you like country music, you're not going to buy a ticket to a rap concert. Religion is like a shopping mall, that's why churches are divided up into denominations like tens and twenties and fifties and hundreds and you have a prophet (profit). So much money - the church has billions in land property and gold relics and you got all these preachers living in mega mansions and all that while millions starve to death. It's a scourge on humanity and the epitome of hypocrisy as they say money is the root of all evil while they swim in it. The word church is from Mother Circe, and she would lure men into her temple and close the doors behind them and turn them into animals and then feed off them. Same thing Mother Church is doing today. It also gives the word Kirk, like the Kirk of the Valley Church because it's an enterprise... a business. But texts like the Bible don't actually promote hatred of homosexuality, it's just been twisted by those who can't read and just obey like sheep, so they have a shepherd. It makes things easy for them. Most Christians Muslims and Jews have never even read their holy books. That's what the Rabbis, Imams and Priests are for. Why do they need to read it when they got someone telling them what it says? That's the reason the Catholic Church created Latin so only the priests knew, and I think they killed people who got a copy of the texts until the printing press. Secrecy in government has always been with us.
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2020, 09:19:03 am »

Religion is bigotry when it is created by men who make their god in their own image.
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2020, 10:57:55 am »

Christianity is kind of odd.  It has the holy text of the jews as well as the holy texts of christians in 1 book. 

Conservative christians tend to follow the OT far more than they do the NT.  Obviously, liberal christians are the opposite.

Unlike other religions, christians generally admit that the bible has been altered constantly over the last 1800 years.     There are also many translation errors. 

In 1380'ish, John Wycliffe hand wrote the 1st ever English language bible, believing that everyone should be able to read it for themselves and not have the clergy be the only ones to read it.  He and his followers made nearly 70 of these bibles.  44 years after his death, the Pope found out about his bibles, so he ordered his bones be dug up, ground up and thrown into a river. 

In 1604, King James ordered that a single bible be made, because there were about 38 different versions floating around the UK at the time.   It was at this time that many of the anti-women parts of the bible were added.  It was approved and published in 1611.    King James banned all other versions of the bible on pain of death. 

Starting in the 1960s, there was a push by more liberal christians for a modern english version of the bible.  Conservative christians were against any bible other than the KJV.    As of last summer, there are 50 different versions of the english bible.  Once again, they vary in how they were created.  Some tried to stay true to the original Greek texts, while others tried to stay true to the KJV.  Of course, there's everything in between. 


NOTE:  There are obviously other bibles in other languages, but I'm only talking about the history of the english versions.

There are many versions of the original text, but a close approximation of a kind of urtext can be reconstructed from various sources, which is mostly agreed by most scholars. There are some differences, most of which are trivial. It isn't true that the 'anti-women' parts of the NT were added in 1611. They are in all Bibles. As you say, some Bibles are translations from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek and some are translations or editions of translations. There are more than 50 translations into English out there, although there may only be about 50 complete ones available for current purchase or easy acquisition via Amazon, etc.
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2020, 07:21:42 am »

Why do some church accept that and most don't.

Because some churches are run by people who care about their subjects, or at least PR, while other are simply a front and a convenient excuse for a bunch of disgruntled middle aged white men to hold onto their entitlement without doing anything to earn it. In both cases holy text and its interpretations is just a fig leaf to cover the ass.
And why some churches are first, and some are second - ma-an, I wish I knew, and how to change the second into first, but alas.
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2020, 02:42:28 am »

Religion is propaganda and should be removed from our society.  It's time we progressed in society instead of worshiping the supernatural.
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2020, 01:20:07 pm »

Religion is bigotry when it is created by men who make their god in their own image.

Its funny you bring that up. My pastor, who is female and I were talking about that, because I like to refer to God as not having a gender. Just because we were made in God's image, doesn't mean the architect of creation had to be female or male. God would have no need for such definition or function.

And I was taught in my religion classes in college that the King James Bible has a lot of bias and personal politics in it, and that before the King James translation, instead of saying Man shall not lie with Man as he would with Woman (paraphrasing) it says in the oldest texts Man shall not lie with Boy as he would with Woman. And that is a whole different ball game.

Our church stresses the Golden Rule above all else and love. We focus more on trying to be Christ followers. I am a gay man and I am on our  worship team. Its a pretty awesome group that tends to the homeless in our area, welcomes people struggling with alcohol and drugs. When I joined our motto was "No Perfect People Allowed." Now it is "All are welcome here. Love is not an option."

I think it is easier for some ministers and churches to use the "other" as a threat to keep their people in line. Its abusive, lazy, and cynical. Its also a sign of lazy theology. If you are keeping your flock by constantly sowing fear and division, then you aren't digging into the text enough, and you are staying with the 99 when Jesus clearly said to go after the one.

I get pretty emotional about my relationship with God, because I feel like it was stolen from me for a long time. Meeting my church family was accidental, and it they embraced me from the start and it took me awhile to hug back and to accept that God loved me.

Religions and churches are like any other group of people. The minute you generalize about the group, five examples will come out of the ether to say the opposite. If you want a relationship with the Lord or Buddha or Allah or any God of your choosing, don't let anyone take that away from you or put you down for it. And that goes for atheists too. Don't let believers give you shit. Its not their place to judge your lack of faith. Judgement is looked down on for us anyway,
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What's with today, today?

At the of the journey, I don't want to be known for what I have or what I don't or what I've accomplished. I will be proud if people say, "He was kind. He gave people grace and compassion. He held space for those who needed it and he experienced a lot of people and places. Love was his mission. He was a whore with a wicked sense of humor, and his laugh shook the world.
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2020, 01:21:48 pm »

Religion is bigotry when it is created by men who make their god in their own image.
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What's with today, today?

At the of the journey, I don't want to be known for what I have or what I don't or what I've accomplished. I will be proud if people say, "He was kind. He gave people grace and compassion. He held space for those who needed it and he experienced a lot of people and places. Love was his mission. He was a whore with a wicked sense of humor, and his laugh shook the world.
(Hidden)

« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2020, 01:24:52 pm »

Christianity is a lot like picking a side in politics; you're either a liberal or a moderate.  Moderate Christians tend to lean towards the literal translations of the bible to dictate how the religion should be viewed.  That, of course, sometimes leads to interesting contradictions such as supposedly not eating shellfish or wearing clothes made from more than one type of fiber.  Naturally, most ignore those edicts yet become so gung-ho on other issues such as same-sex issues.

Conversely, liberal Christians tend to have a more broader and inclusive view of the bible.  They would be more willing to, for example, interpret Jesus's condemnation of men sleeping with other men as being context from the ancient ritual of "sexually conquering" an enemy fallen in battle; that he never once mentioned anything about consensual sex between same genders.  That, unfortunately, breaks away from the traditional mainstream views that Christianity was originally born from and is probably considered a minority group in the world of Christianity.

Note that you should take what I say with a grain of salt.  I am nowhere near religious; I'm more of a theist.  My point is to mainly show that Christianity is a lot like being in politics; you will always be on one side with regards to the topic of gays.  Which is why I am not a fan of organized religion; it's too much like being in politics with some groups being exclusive rather than inclusive.
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