Straight Men Who Have Sex With Men
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« on: August 10, 2015, 02:15:05 am »

Such men are not necessarily gay because categories and labels are bunk. Sex is sex, and when you're hot, you're hot; when you're not you're not. Period.

The old way of saying that is "a hard prick has no conscience." Also known as "any port in a storm." And sometimes alibied as "God, was I drunk last night (I don't remember a thing)."

Health researchers have lately added SMWHSWM to Gay and Bi and Straight for convenience in talking about epidemiology issues and social behaviors. Read through the M4M category of small/classified adverts on Craig's List sometime and you'll find a lot of dudes who identify as st8, maybe even married with kids, who have an "itch" sometimes and want a hard cock up their ass or an occasional dick to suck.

Anyway, there's a new book about the phenomenon: "Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men" by Jane Ward, an associate professor of women’s studies at the University of California's Riverside campus (about a hundred miles east of Los Angeles).

There is an interview with the author in New York Magazine:
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/08/why-straight-men-have-sex-with-each-other.html?mid=facebook_nymag

She explains why she avoided the complexity of interracial connections in her study of why and whether and how straight men are supposed to be more rigid, more narrow, in their sexual accommodations than women, who increasingly are allowed (encouraged!) to kiss each other for the titillation of a man or men.

"But for white men, no one ever asks what’s going on in white culture or what it is about white masculinity that is making this kind of sex practice possible. But that’s really precisely the question we should be asking, because white men have engaged in — straight-identified white men have engaged in — intimate or sexual encounters with one another since the very invention of heterosexuality and homosexuality as medical terms in the late 19th-century, and yet very little attention has been paid to it."

She's right that heterosexuality was invented just over a century ago (as a counterpoint to the invention of homosexuality) but to say men hafe fucked around somewhat independently of the gender of their partner "since" that invention surely is misleading. In fact, it did not start then; it continued from then on just as it had previously.

"I think it would be helpful to just start with greater awareness that homosexual desire is just part of the human condition," she says.

"Now if we take that as given, then the question is, Well, why do some people want it more than others, or why do some people organize their life around it, and other people don’t want anyone to even know that they do it? To me that’s a more interesting question than Are you born gay or straight? and so I think that the solution, honestly, is to stop being so obsessed with sociobiological arguments about sexual orientation, which I think are a trap, frankly, and instead ask the question, Given that so many humans have homosexual encounters, what is it that makes some people understand their homosexual encounters as culturally significant, and other people understand it as meaningless or circumstantial? I don’t think we have the answer to that question yet.

And that is a great question. Earlier today I was explaining to someone that in the decade or so of my life that began with puberty, I could have had sex with far more women if I had allowed it to happen, but I was not interested, and to the extent I was even curious (as opposed to driven by innate compulsions to fertilize and breed, or at least go through the motions. That was not me, but eventually I fumbled into taking a more active role in getting who I did want in terms of sex partners.

Some of my behavior was simple ignorance of what to do. Some was due to a fear of screwing up (from lack of interest as much as inexperience and skill). A long time later, I realized that I could have been frolicking with all kinds of people, men and women both, if I had been able to recognize an opportunity or even a direct offer.

Tell me whether you agree with this take. Before sex, it seems like an enormously big deal, highly significant, a deeply meaningful crossing of the Rubicon. NOW one is a man. NOW one can breed and procreate and go out for lots of sport fucking because NOW you know it is not the big deal you thought. The world did not end. There may or may not have been stars, but there are always other fish in the sea, etc. etc.

I think it is Nick Jonas, of the pop singing Jonas Brothers, who gave up wearing and flaunting a chastity ring as soon as he stopped being a virgin, who said that his reaction after his first time with a woman was, "Is that all there is? Is THAT what the big deal is supposed to be?" With so much societal buildup and mythology, it almost could not be otherwise once you learn the truth. It's like the old lie that you should save it for marriage because virginity is so very, very special and sacred and blahblahblah, the triumph of virtue over carnal depravity, the mystical need to wait until the wedding night, "the most wonderful night of your life." When both partners were equally ignorant and inexperienced, it surely was a very special night, but "wonderful" might not be le mot juste.

If it is correct that sex is a much bigger deal Before the act than it is After, that might shed some light on the question she asks, above: "Given that so many humans have homosexual encounters, what is it that makes some people understand their homosexual encounters as culturally significant, and other people understand it as meaningless or circumstantial?"

Some people make a big deal out of it; other's don't. A young Navy recruit on his way to training was approached by a man who wanted to give him head. He was horny and intrigued, but had all kinds of issues and concerns about whether it was wrong, whether that would define him in a way he disapproved, what others might think, perhaps even whether it was morally wrong, though in this particular case I doubt that was actually a concern. He was persuaded without much difficulty, the winning argument being, "Hey, it's just a blowjob."

Some men, in that situation, would have turned violent over time, become gay bashers or self-righteous Bible pounders. Other men seem perfectly willing to get off and appreciate a hot mouth, but rarely encounter an opportunity. That is, they're not looking, but if someone hits them up first, they may be perfectly willing.

Maybe we all have stories, perhaps similar to the ones published by the late Boyd MacDonald in the form of verbatim extracts of letters sent to him as part of his years of extensive documentation of male-male sex. His underground magazine, The Manhattan Review of Cocksucking, sometimes called Straight to Hell, or simply STH, can be sampled, merely hinted at, by means of a few rare and scattered issues that  have been scanned onto this site, but so far uploaded are none of the books in which he collected hundreds, even thousands, of spontaneous real-life encounters.

The stories I suspect we all have-- esp. those of us whose puberty took place before the Internet, before porno theaters, DVDs, and VHS--involve str8 people having sex with men because queers were unavailable and for all purposes other than "bogeyman" or "night monster," nonexistent. That is, sex with a man or a boy our own age pretty much involved straight men because, as I said, that's all there were.

Maybe a college, Boy Scout, or summer camp experiment was conducted in secret, but that can be written off as youthful folly. If the widespread experience men have with dicks other than their own ever became common knowledge, then "everyone" would be in on the secretly erotic fraternal bonds of men just as the world is increasingly aware of "the sisterhood." (Interestingly, it is the same ahedonic Fascist types who oppose both gay marriage and female equality. Hmm.)

Would be happy to hear what everyone else thinks about straight men having sex with other men, and why some people can do that, have a good time, and move on without significant baggage, while others totally freak at the very thought of men voluntarily meeting each other's needs.







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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2015, 11:25:55 pm »

At this v moment, it says 132 people have looked at this message, and there is not a single reply.

So I wonder how many people actually managed to read my epic on this topic. And how many of them skipped a reply because discretion is the better part of valor, OR since they cannot say anything good, they courteously choose to say nothing. I should learn to do so well.

HOWEVER.

Today I wandered over to Amazon, the world-famous sweatshop and worker abuser-in-chief and found four comments from various reviewers.
Here they are.

“Clear-eyed and unsqueamish, Not Gay defiantly insists that sex between contemporary American straight white men is in fact meaningful sex that can't—and shouldn't—just be hand-waved away. Jane Ward provides a timely and convincing corrective.”-Hanne Blank,author of Virgin: The Untouched History

“Not Gay is nothing less than a breath of fresh air. This book is certain to change the way that we think about heterosexuality’s relations with the homoerotic.”-Roderick Ferguson,author of Aberrations in Black: Toward a Queer of Color Critique

"This fascinating book explores the worlds of white men who have sex with other white men and yet identify as straight.”-Pacific Standard

"Rather than focusing so much on sexual orientation, or trying to unmask the feelings of these men, who position themselves as heterosexual yet engage in same-sex sexual behavior, Ward turns her attention to the ways in which certain organizations use homosexual acts to further men's investment in heterosexuality, hypermasculinity and homosociality in order to build lasting, strong bonds and friendships and to reassert white manhood."-Metapsychology

So with that puffery, there are also reviews from readers who have posted their own remarks on the sweatshop's sales site. In particular, this one seems remarkably pertinent. http://www.amazon.com/review/R1BXX5F9JB7IOY/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1479825174&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=283155&store=books

Since War has a website named in the company's sales page, I may toddle over there to see whether the author has a cogent reply to this quite friendly but quite disappointed critique.
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 12:50:13 am »

I find that the majority of the time, the reactions to such things are due to social factors. I believe in my honest opinion it's fine if a straight man wants to have sex with another man. It's just sex, in other terms, pleasure. Reactions to men having sex with other men, for example in western culture where masculinity is portrayed as being competitiveness, aggressiveness, shagging like rabbits, etc, men may be more aggressive when topics such as this comes up, but times are changing and others react differently. In other cultures like chinese, they show different traits in terms of masculinity, even they will have different reactions. Though, you'll be much better off getting opinions in other forums that aren't exactly as biased (I believe the majority of users are gay or bi, with occasional straight men). Hypothetically speaking and this is all made up in my mind, a straight men raised by same-sex parents are more willing to experiment or just do casual hook-ups with the same gender. It may not be accurate, but it gives you insight of how one is raised gives off different reactions.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 12:52:15 am by (Hidden) » Logged


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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2015, 03:58:04 pm »

 Shocked
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 05:35:06 pm »

i don't care whether he is gay or straight...
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 02:00:19 am »

labels make things more complicated than it already is.. Crazy?
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 03:45:30 pm »

I know many gay men who just have sex with other men only for sex's sake. Some men never fall in love, but enjoy the sex throughout their lives. I guess they arent REALLY gay.

And oh, I also know LOTS of hetersexual men who enjoy sex with women, but never have fallen in love.
I guess they arent REALLY straight.

Straight men who have sex with men is just as good a goodnight story as any other. A fairy one at that.

Well, my 2 cents.
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2016, 02:16:41 pm »

I know many gay men who just have sex with other men only for sex's sake. Some men never fall in love, but enjoy the sex throughout their lives. I guess they arent REALLY gay.

And oh, I also know LOTS of hetersexual men who enjoy sex with women, but never have fallen in love.
I guess they arent REALLY straight.

Straight men who have sex with men is just as good a goodnight story as any other. A fairy one at that.

Well, my 2 cents.

Agreed 100% Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2016, 02:52:25 pm »

I'm a straight guy and I enjoy to fuck shemales and gay dudes. My wife said my thick Dick cock was too painfull :cheers:l for her asshole  and wouldn't have anal Anal sex with me. 

It is what is, nothing more, nothing less. I love shooting  :cum:a big load deep inside the guts of a nice ass. I have a nice Asian boy that I've been fucking on and off for the last 8 years.

 According to my wife, I'm a homosexual afraid because I put my penis in another man's butt blow nose. My reply, "You had your chance".
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1x Grin


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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 08:30:43 pm »

I'm a straight guy and I enjoy to fuck shemales and gay dudes.
[...]
 According to my wife, I'm a homosexual afraid because I put my penis in another man's butt blow nose. My reply, "You had your chance".

Your wife might be onto something  Grin

Well, in my book, that makes you at least bi. Of course, other book editions might vary, but I'm kind of a first edition collector.  Cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 09:01:31 pm »

I'm a straight guy and I enjoy to fuck shemales and gay dudes. My wife said my thick Dick cock was too painfull :cheers:l for her asshole  and wouldn't have anal Anal sex with me. 

It is what is, nothing more, nothing less. I love shooting  :cum:a big load deep inside the guts of a nice ass. I have a nice Asian boy that I've been fucking on and off for the last 8 years.

 According to my wife, I'm a homosexual afraid because I put my penis in another man's butt blow nose. My reply, "You had your chance".

I don't know what you are and I don't care but you got my dick hard as fuck.
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 02:33:48 pm »

I don't think that anyone is totally straight, male or female.  It's just a matter of how much of an attraction there is, or how far you are willing to go with an attraction.  I say this because( my opinion) most people I think choose their friends initially by physical and sexual attraction. Meaning that most guys wouldn't want to say go to a bar with another guy that would turn women or guys in the other direction.  Same thing for women. Most people I think want to be around someone that is what they think someone else would find attractive also reflecting on themselves. But there are other cases where you my not think someone is the best looking person, but there is still something attractive about them, maybe it's the way they carry themselves, treat their fellow man or the way they treat you.  The test is look at someone and think, that if you wake up tomorrow and looked just like them how happy or sad would you be.  Just rambling....
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2016, 07:27:41 pm »

i don't care whether he is gay or straight...


I do care! if the guy is gay then ok but if the guy is straight then I want to fuck with him more than a gay guy
there's something in the "Unnatural" that makes me want it even more
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 11:31:11 am »

There are different personality types. Not every guy is the same. Some excel at adapting to different circumstances, others see only problems and insurmountable obstacles. The one builds a fortress and stays put, the other goes out on adventure and finds new places to explore.

It's how the human race spread out across the world.
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 10:20:03 pm »

I know another name for that: closeted gay/bi guy.
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2016, 01:41:54 am »

Why can't we love one another regardless of gender, race, religion, politics, etc.  Sex is fun and is best shared.
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grover59
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2016, 05:00:15 am »

I can't resist contributing to this discussion because although I've been interested in SMWHSWM topic for a long time,  my curiosity begs to know more about it.

So right out of the bag people start saying labels are useless and restrictive etc.  I couldn't agree more, but the title says "straight" which is every bit a label as "Gay" "queer" what ever people are identifying as these days.

I only have anecdotal evidence for you today.  I'll use myself as an example I came out as being gay early in high school trying to own the fact that I knew I was more secure being a little different.  These days if someone asked if I were gay, I would probably say yes, but only because it makes that discussion go easier, and then we can go back to life.  I've been aroused by women but it's incredibly rare and far between and the few sexual events I've had with exclusively women felt very unsatisfying.  For this reason, I find it easier to tell people that I'm gay, as opposed to "mostly gay" or "kinda sorta bi sometimes."  I have romantic and emotional feelings for men and women both, but stronger for men, so far this is all lining up.

But then I want to address the idea that a horny guy will fuck anything (for example straight needs to fuck, will fuck a guy).  I am willing to believe that this is somewhat true, but the idea is so incredibly foreign to me.  It doesn't matter the gender of my partner, if I don't have this affectionate, emotional attachment, I can't perform ( and don't want to).  Due to these reason, I get sex from boyfriends, or long time friends, and it's gratifying but trying to find someone on an app or website, or a rendez vous with a stranger just doesn't arouse me.

Sometimes I'm jealous of people that can have more casual sex, or don't mind what gender they are sleeping with.  They make it seem like it's fun and rewarding (and easy to find?), and I don't feel any of those things in the few one-nighters I've had.

I need to talk more about this casual sex idea.  I recently was talking with a group of men, and multiples said that they hadn't masturbated since teenage/ early adulthood.  This seemed odd to me, cause if I feel like masturbating when I get home from work well.. I'm going to!   Anyways so I ask them, to explain, and they said that at a certain point in their life, they just were always going out to meet women, or had fuck-buddys or whatever, and that when they were horny they would go find a person to fuck.  This baffles me, because while I think both masturbation and romantic/emotional intercourse are amazing, I would definitely much rather touch myself than go through all the trouble of finding someone to shoot my load into(if all I'm looking for is that release).  Sounds like a lot of effort and money, and socializing.  What if you are horny so you go out to a bar or club, and you strike out, or no one of interest is there whatever, it's last call, lights come on and suddenly (because you don't masturbate) you need to find someone that will help you get off before you are asked to leave the bar...  When I proposed this hypothetical to the guys, they said that they would rather take someone to screw, that they were not attracted to, before they would go home and jerk themselves to sleep (lol).  I struggle wrapping my mind around how a person can even fuck another person if they are not attracted.  I've given it a shot a couple times and had no luck in this regard.  maybe "luck" isn't what I should call it...

writing all this, portrays me as if I have some diminished libido which seem inaccurate, only that I get arousal from affectionate, emotional, and romantic endeavors, instead of the fuck til your dick is raw style other prefer..

(Sexuality is a spectrum right?)

A poster here talks about having sex with another man because his wife is not enjoying anal intercourse.  That's fine, and I agree that I wouldn't much call that "Gay" because it seems that the arousal came from the fetishized nature of anal intercourse.  In this case I can see why gender would not matter, as all genders seem to be fully equipped with anuses.

=]

So one of my neighbors is bi, and he is married and has kids, but we still fool around sometimes, and while we aren't seeing each other romantically, or anything, at the same time, there is a weird emotional romantic element to it.  We are comfortable talking about our love for each other, but sometimes I wonder if it's accurate or if he just likes being railed from behind, as he has his wife wear strap-ons too.  Again.... labels aren't helping me make this point.

so SMWHSWM are they really straight or are they something else?  My only answer to that, is: I don't care, but I feel sad for them that they feel the need to clarify their sexual orientation.  If you are looking for homosexual relations of any kind, who gives a fuck what your orientation is.  Who you pound (or get pounded by) does not define you.  Although I will concede, to what another poster said about "if the guy is straight I want to fuck with him more..."  I totally relate to that, I have fantasies about straight guys, but at the heart of it all, the fantasy isn't that I want to sleep with someone who has no attraction to me, the fantasy is really about, having something seemingly unattainable or taboo.

oops my two cents is up.
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